Garden Wall Project - help required

spiidey · 28 Jun 2015

Which part of the turf in the measurements above should be 40mm below the top of the flags - the bottom of the turfs soil, the bottom of the visible grass / top of the turfs soil, or the top of the grass?

And re the turf being approximately an inch thick, is this the depth of the turfs soil only or the turfs soil plus the visible grass?

r896neo · 29 Jun 2015

In my measurements i am refering to the prepared bed for the turf.

The actual sod/ soil is about one inch and the grass will stand up another bit after a few days

spiidey · 5 Jul 2015

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spiidey · 6 Jul 2015

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spiidey · 6 Jul 2015

We're considering artificial grass. Any general thoughts on particular brands to use / is artificial grass any good / does it stand the test of time? Any advice on "below ground" prep would be useful as some manufacturers recommend 100mm total fill below ground (75mm type 1 / 25mm sharp sand) whereas others are suggesting a 50mm type 1 / 25mm sharp sand mix.

One particular company (Grono) are suggesting that instead of using the usual tanalised timber strips around the perimeter of the grassed area, a strip of concrete could be used instead (which would allow us to have the grass following the curves of the walls) and the artificial grass then glued to the concrete strips using Aqua Bond. Would that work and would the grass remain "stuck" to the concrete over time? We really can't afford the EverEdge galvanised strips so to get the curves I think concrete is our only option.

Finally, and probably most importantly, could the concrete be put at the front of the bottom of the retaining wall (see pic below)? If so, where:-

(a) Could it go along the red strip shown in the pic below, with the blue strip (c. 150-200mm wide) being filled with decorative stone?
(b) Would it need to go directly adjacent to the wall (i.e. the blue strip)?
(c) Can it not go in any of these locations due to wall drainage issues?

wrathkeg · 7 Jul 2015

You might be able to use timber if you kerf one face of it as is done for curved formwork:

http://www.pavingexpert.com/formwk01.htm

I suppose if the timber is not treated all the way through it would be an idea to apply end grain treatment to the cuts to help prevent rot.

Another thought: you might be more likely to get replies if instead of posting what are essentially separate queries to one massive thread you posted in separate threads with a more informative title. It would also be more helpful for people looking for information in the future.

spiidey · 7 Jul 2015

wrathkeg said:
You might be able to use timber if you kerf one face of it as is done for curved formwork:

http://www.pavingexpert.com/formwk01.htm

I suppose if the timber is not treated all the way through it would be an idea to apply end grain treatment to the cuts to help prevent rot.

Another thought: you might be more likely to get replies if instead of posting what are essentially separate queries to one massive thread you posted in separate threads with a more informative title. It would also be more helpful for people looking for information in the future.

Noted. I'm just trying to keep all the posts in one thread to prevent constantly having to link back to this thread.

We've binned the idea of artificial grass as its simply going to cost too much. So we're back to turf.

We need edging that will separate the edge of the grass from decorative stone, most of the edging needs to run as a curved shaped pattern. We want as little of the edging to be visible as possible (i.e. the top of the edging will sit broadly flush with the top of the pebbles/grass.

There seems to be a whole raft of products out there and we're not sure where to start really - we don't want to scrimp and get a product that will rust/disintegrate/not do the job over time, but equally don't want an overspecced product where we're paying over the odds.

Thoughts?

wrathkeg · 7 Jul 2015

I wouldn't have the top of the grass, the edge, and the gravel at the same height. You will constantly be picking gravel off your grass and it will therefore be a swine to cut. The edge needs to stand proud of the grass (which you don't want), or at the same height as the grass with an inch or so drop down to the gravel.

spiidey · 7 Jul 2015

wrathkeg said:
I wouldn't have the top of the grass, the edge, and the gravel at the same height. You will constantly be picking gravel off your grass and it will therefore be a swine to cut. The edge needs to stand proud of the grass (which you don't want), or at the same height as the grass with an inch or so drop down to the gravel.

Yes, definitely don't want the gravel constantly on the grass, defeats the purpose of having the edge in the first place!

Would you have the top of the grass when cut level with the top of the edge? Or the grass prior to cut (say an extra inch higher)? Or the top of the grass sod level with the top of the edge?

On that basis, what kind of product is most suitable for us (that will stand the test of time / isn't overspecced for what we need)? Do we need galvanised steel, etc.

wrathkeg · 7 Jul 2015

I have a brick mowing strip in my own garden at about the height of neatly cut grass so that when I mow the wheels go on the strip and cut the grass to the right height. Quick, easy, and no edging. (Well, maybe an annual tidy up with the strimmer).

Personally I wouldn't go for anything like steel, plastic, or anything like that. I am not sure how well a timber edge at the same height as the grass would work: if the wheels went on it it would be liable to fall apart quite quickly, and generally be awkward. But if you don't go over the edge you might end up having to strim the edges every time you mow.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging4.htm

spiidey · 7 Jul 2015

wrathkeg said:
I have a brick mowing strip in my own garden at about the height of neatly cut grass so that when I mow the wheels go on the strip and cut the grass to the right height. Quick, easy, and no edging. (Well, maybe an annual tidy up with the strimmer).

Personally I wouldn't go for anything like steel, plastic, or anything like that. I am not sure how well a timber edge at the same height as the grass would work: if the wheels went on it it would be liable to fall apart quite quickly, and generally be awkward. But if you don't go over the edge you might end up having to strim the edges every time you mow.

http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging4.htm

Thanks again for the reply.

We don't really want a brick mowing strip - we'd be happy just strimming the edges that the mower can't get to when needed.

We'd like something as thin as possible that provides a clean line between the grass and the decorative stone; although as I say we don't want to pay through the roof for something that isn't necessarily required. Equally we don't want a crap product that falls apart / disintegrates (the timber suggestion above very much noted as I could see this happening).

spiidey · 10 Jul 2015

Turf delivered today but had problems trying to level the ground.

Finally managed to get one side ready and will lay the delivered turf on that tomorrow.

However, to level the other side we need more top soil which we may or may not be able to get tomorrow. If not tomorrow it will be Monday/Tuesday as we need a bulk bag.

Questions: if we cannot lay the turf on one of the sides until Mon/Tue, will the turf survive if we unroll the turf, lay it out flat, and then lay 3/4 turf sheets stacked on top of each other (rather than in the rolls they were delivered in?)?

If we do the above, and keep the turf well watered, will it last until Monday/Tuesday?

r896neo · 12 Jul 2015

Sorry, i was on holiday so haven't been on in a while. Sounds like its all moving forward.

The turf will be irrecoverable if not laid out within 48 hours of delivery.

You can roll it out on any surface and water it well and it will be ok but much better to get it into position. You can not stack them, they need light as well as water.

The fact that you said you had trouble levelling the ground is concerning, have you dig it over or rotovated? If not its worth considering lifting the turf and doing that while it is still liftable.

As a warning to others... Never have turf delivered unless your sure you can lay it that day or the next day at the latest.

As an aside you do not need a strip of gravel in front of the retaining wall if the surface is to be grass as grass is porous and not prevent drainage.

spiidey · 13 Jul 2015

r896neo said:
Sorry, i was on holiday so haven't been on in a while. Sounds like its all moving forward.

The turf will be irrecoverable if not laid out within 48 hours of delivery.

You can roll it out on any surface and water it well and it will be ok but much better to get it into position. You can not stack them, they need light as well as water.

The fact that you said you had trouble levelling the ground is concerning, have you dig it over or rotovated? If not its worth considering lifting the turf and doing that while it is still liftable.

As a warning to others... Never have turf delivered unless your sure you can lay it that day or the next day at the latest.

As an aside you do not need a strip of gravel in front of the retaining wall if the surface is to be grass as grass is porous and not prevent drainage.

No worries, thanks again for the reply, and hope you had a lovely holiday!!

Things have definitely moved forward, that's all the hard manual work finally done and just a few finishes touches (bedding plants, decorative stone, potting plants etc to go).

For what its worth, we did dig over the ground and then rotovated it, the problem when we were levelling it was that I had watered the ground before trying to level and it was just a nightmare. So left it overnight and dressed the top with top soil to then rake and screed flat. Took a while but got there. However I echo your comments - should never have ordered the turf until we knew we had a level site.

Grass all laid within 54 hours of delivery - slightly outwith the 48 hour mark but everything watered like hell whilst stored flat, and before and after going down.

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Another few queries:-

1. Our flags have been down for 2-3 weeks now and in the last couple of days we've noticed we've been getting this sort of white sheen appearing on some of them (see pic). Is this effloresence, if so what do we need to do with it? If its not efflorescence what is it?

2. We are laying decorative stone at the free edges of our slabs (about 200mm width) to hide the haunching. However, the haunching only extends out about 100mm, with the remaining 100mm normal soil. Would the white terram 1000 stop the weeds from coming up? Or should we just use bog standard black matting?

r896neo · 14 Jul 2015

Its probably efflouresense, if it is it will weather away. It could also be cementy stains from spilt bedding mix that was brushed off. You should be able to deal with them after pointing.

The terram 1000 will be suitable as a weedblock fabric.

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Garden Wall Project - help required

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