This should not be possible right!?

eveares · 4 Aug 2015

I thought that the 2 pin European moulded plugs that you sometimes get with appliances don't fit into our shaver sockets, despite being similar to shaver plugs.

Seems like I was wrong, the 2 pin euro plug/lead that came with one of my audio/computer gear pieces in deeds plugs into my shaver socket and thus I can charge my camera battery in the sink.

See what I mean:

Dangerous Flaw

eveares
4 Aug 2015

Note: Please don't anyone re-create the dangerous situation what is shown in the photo above. I took the photo to illustrate the potential danger!

Iggifer · 4 Aug 2015

A BS5473 has marginally wider pins I think, but as you've found, a europlug will fit into a 5473 socket.

From the MK spec

The shaver socket outlet accommodates the following plugs:

British 5mm dia pins on 16.6mm pitch (230V socket) to BS 4573: 1970.

European 4mm dia pins on 17 to 19mm pitch (230V socket) to IEC 83: 1975 Standard C5.

Pretty pointless using them for anything other than their intended use though, as they're limited to 200mA, so either the thermistor will trip, the transformer will close and you'll get 0v, or your battery might be charged by early next week

Cigaro · 4 Aug 2015

230 * 0.2 = 46 watts - probably enough to run most reasonably efficient chargers.

It's not even that dangerous - the whole point of the transformer in the shaver socket is that it provides isolation from input to output. You could (though it's not really a good idea) touch either one of the pins in the shaver socket without getting a shock, because neither is connected to earth.

JohnD · 4 Aug 2015

you could have done the same with your toothbrush charger, or your electric shaver, had you wished. Would that have been any less dangerous? Or any less foolish?

eveares · 4 Aug 2015

Cigaro said:
It's not even that dangerous

The danger is in that the Euro Plug fits in the shaver socket in the first place, not that the socket is transformer isolated from mains earth. What if some one has a cheap Chinese shaver socket in their bathroom with no isolating transformer but is instead connected directly to the mains. Plugging such a non IP68/IP67 rated device such as a camera charger in a already dangerous situation would make it even more dangerous.

JohnD · 4 Aug 2015

what's the IP rating of an electric shaver?

eveares · 4 Aug 2015

I don't have an electric shaver, but my tooth brush is rated IP 67. Still I think it is poor design that some euro plugs can be put in shaver sockets.

Iggifer · 4 Aug 2015

You can put anything in a shaver socket if you try hard enough. You can put a europlug in a 1363 with enough force if you're that way inclined.

Somebody having a knock off shaver point AND inappropriately using said socket to charge their camera battery is probably going to get a belt anyway. And seeing as most shaver outlets are fed from lighting circuits, it's only going to be a tingle

seasickstevie · 4 Aug 2015

Iggifer said:
... fed from lighting circuits, it's only going to be a tingle

Why would that be?

... and what's a knock off shaver point?

JohnW2 · 4 Aug 2015

SNM said:
Iggifer said:

... fed from lighting circuits, it's only going to be a tingle

Click to expand...

Why would that be?

An extremely good question, relating to a very worrying statement!

Kind Regards, John

Iggifer · 4 Aug 2015

I have no idea what a 'knock off shaver point is', the OP brought them up.

And which half of the statement was worrying? One half was clearly a joke

JohnW2 · 4 Aug 2015

Iggifer said:
And which half of the statement was worrying? One half was clearly a joke

In that case, you should have added a 'smiley' or other emoticon - anyone reading it as written could think that it was a statement of truth - don't forget that many forum members have very limited understanding of electrical matters.

Kind Regards, John

Iggifer · 4 Aug 2015

Apologies I clearly should have done! I have now

Cigaro · 4 Aug 2015

eveares said:
Cigaro said:

It's not even that dangerous

Click to expand...

What if some one has a cheap Chinese shaver socket in their bathroom with no isolating transformer but is instead connected directly to the mains.

But non-isolated shaver sockets shouldn't be installed in bathrooms. You could just as easily install a 13 amp mains socket next to the bathroom sink and argue that it's dangerous. Of course it is - it's not meant to be there.

IF the shaver socket is isolated, and correctly designed, then it's quite safe. You would be unlikely to get a shock from the device, because it's isolated from ground, and the transformer's thermal fuse should protect against overload.

Not to say it's a good idea, of course...

eveares · 4 Aug 2015

Cigaro said:
Not to say it's a good idea, of course...

That was my point. Yea, we have RCD's, Isolated transformers, Regulation governing what can be placed where; but as some euro plugs fit in shaver sockets and some don't (excluding excessive force), it made me wonder if the ones that do are cheap non compliant versions of Euro Plugs.

Cigaro said:
You could just as easily install a 13 amp mains socket next to the bathroom sink and argue that it's dangerous. Of course it is - it's not meant to be there.

Yes, but to the average person seeing a shaver socket in the bathroom that looks fine, but is not protected by a RCD or Safety Isolating Transformer (Yes, I know very unlikely) would not appear to be dangerous where as a 13 amp socket in the bathroom would; despite both situations being dangerous albeit one being obvious and the other not.

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This should not be possible right!?

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