Is it time to to ban vintage air shows?

Some people seem unable to grasp the difference between spectators and participants getting killed and random people who had nothing to do with the event.

I will try one last time to explain.

Unfortunately on Sunday Justin Wilson was killed whilst driving his racing car.
It is extremely sad but that was his job and he knew the risks.
I do not expect a ban of motor racing because of this.

Not in this case but sometimes the racing car crashes into the crowd but the people watching realise it is dangerous and, no doubt, there is a disclaimer on their tickets.
I do not expect a ban of motor racing because of this.
In Formula1 spectators are no longer allowed to be within distances where this could happen.

However, should there be a case of the car crashing off the circuit and out of the stadium to encounter at 200mph a main road resulting in eleven people on the road being killed that race track would be closed until it was made impossible for such an occurrence to happen again.

DrJimFranklin said:

You see, like it or not, all accidents are simply random, that is why we call them accidents. Should we ban everything where an accident occurs and people die...NO, should we look into making it safer, investigate what went wrong dispassionately and make fair and reasonable judgements about how to prevent, as far as is reasonably practicable, such events reoccurring.. of course we should, but simply banning it is not the answer.

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Alright then, accepting that.

My conclusion, then, is that that has not been done to a sufficient degree as far as air shows in the middle of residential areas are concerned.

So, we have to accept that some planes at air shows will crash and no one has any idea where they will come down.

I note no one has answered my question "is there another sport, event, whatever, where the participants can escape the arena and kill passers-by?"
If there is not - I can't think of one and no one has given one - then air shows are on their own in being able to do this.
If so, then why are they allowed to continue?

They, therefore, are unique in being able to crash machines onto a road, into someone's house or houses, into a school or shop - anywhere.
Shall we wait for this to happen? You presumably think yes.

It is as irresponsible as drink driving.

conny said:

I'm sorry to disappoint you but unless you wrap your children in cotton wool for the rest of their lives and refuse to let them go over the doorstep, then they are going to be exposed to all manner of dangerous things in the world.

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I'm sorry to disappoint you but my little girl is 43 and I did not wrap them in cotton wool.

We ALL do things which carry risks, yes even you, but we try to minimise those risks for both our own benefit and those around us. But as long as there are humans involved in anything then there is potential for ACCIDENTS to happen. Its called living. Anything less is called existing.

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We obviously have different definitions of minimise.

Why are guns banned?
Why is drink driving banned?
Why is street racing banned? etc. etc.

We shall wait and see.

EFLImpudence, Rally....it is a sport without arena and the cars are more than capable of killing a person not taking part in being a spectator.. and that has, very sadly happened.

I also note you very sneakily ignored my comments about Golf and Cricket killing people not taking part, or the fact that commercial and military aircraft have crashed onto civilians and killed them.

The more you argue the less water your bucket is holding.

There was a report on the radio about 15 minutes ago that hints that the crash may have been caused by a bird being ingested into one of the engines causing a flame out...that settles it...BAN BIRDS...thoughtless bloody animal killing itself and taking 20 humans with it. You see how ridiculous that sounds...banning the airshow is almost as ridiculous.. especially when you taking into account the airshow has been there longer than the houses surrounding it as the town has grown. Using your logic we should close all major airports when the surrounding conurbations encroach under flight paths and increase the random possibility of a crashing plane killing those on the ground.

EFLImpudence said:

We obviously have different definitions of minimise..

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Clearly, we live in the real world of risk and acceptance, you live in the world of "Aaarrr...the Zombies are coming"

EFLImpudence said:

Why are guns banned?
Why is drink driving banned?
Why is street racing banned? etc. etc.

We shall wait and see.

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Easy

• Guns are banned because the Police do not like competition in shooting the innocent (And in fact Guns are not banned, only restricted)
• Drink Driving is not banned, it simply has a limit that you can drink then drive, should you do so and you are caught there are consequences.
• Street Racing again is not banned per se, it is a section of the Road Traffic Act that states that racing on the public road is an offence...not quite the same thing.

Sorry, I did forget about Golf and Cricket although I have never heard of these incidents.

I do not know what zombies have to do with it.

Without shouting - the rally spectators are there on purpose.

Planes eating birds, now.

DrJimFranklin said:

Guns are banned because the Police do not like competition in shooting the innocent (And in fact Guns are not banned, only restricted)
Drink Driving is not banned, it simply has a limit that you can drink then drive, should you do so and you are caught there are consequences.
Street Racing again is not banned per se, it is a section of the Road Traffic Act that states that racing on the public road is an offence...not quite the same thing.

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That's it then.
The next time something like this happens the event organisers shall be guilty of manslaughter.


It seems being entitled to one's opinion has been suspended.

ok if we compile a list off how people die when they have no control over the outcome going from 1 to 10 million dying by a freak airshow accident will be far far lower than bee stings slashing your jugular by mistake when removing a jumper whilst holding a craft knife

we need to apply a proportionate amount off effort to the problem you are making mount everest out off a pimple on a spotty teenagers back

Oh dear, do you not think if we could prevent bees stinging us we would?

EFLImpudence said:

Oh dear, do you not think if we could prevent bees stinging us we would?

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Bees are OK.
But on this subject, I strongly believe we should ban all wasps. Evil things.

Typical "knee jerk" reaction I think. Ban anything with any element of risk to anyone. Perhaps if TV had been banned, Rod Hull would still be alive.

jockscott said:

Typical "knee jerk" reaction I think. Ban anything with any element of risk to anyone. Perhaps if TV had been banned, Rod Hull would still be alive.

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cable or i player may have saved his life

EFLImpudence said:

Oh dear, do you not think if we could prevent bees stinging us we would?

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Depends on the time, trouble, effort, and cost. Weighed up against the "benefits", I'd go with "no."

It is amazing and saddening to see how many accidents occur in locations and activities where safety measures are in place to prevent accidents.

People are believing that Health and Safety regulation will keep them safe so they stop looking out for themselves and their own safety. Self preservation has been reduced to the point of being non effective when the un-foreseen happens.

Basic instincts that something is not right are being ignored until it is too late and an accident happens. An accident that would not have happened if belief in gut feeling had prevailed and the assurances based on Health and Safety ignored.

I accept that in the Shoreham incident relying on instincts and gut feelings would not have protected the motorists who were killed.

Air shows should NOT be banned ( in my opinion ).

I agree that air shows should not be banned, no reason why we can not have Fly pasts by vintage aircraft.

Aerial Stunts of Aircraft over land is a different matter though they should be banned.

Tbh, I thought that all airshows were held over the sea these days. It didn't occur to me that they were not. Shoreham-by-Sea, Southend on Sea etc. The sea is there, why not use it?

I live on an airport flight path. If a holiday jet crashed onto my town and wiped out everyone in the street it would be tragic but I would have to accept that it was an accident, whether due to pilot error or mechanical failure. But, if some t*sser was showing off doing loop the loop overhead then crashed killing all my neighbours I would be extremely p*ssed off (if I was still alive).

I can't believe that in this age of nanny state, where you are not allowed to go 4 rungs up a ladder unless you have a certificate; that someone is allowed to show off in a military killing machine over your house.

6 pages and the same argments (people die, accidents happen = therefore nothing should be done and just let whatever happen).

You see, like it or not, all accidents are simply random

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I accidently into a plane and loop the looped over populated areas.