Did you clients say anything about build up or did you not bring to there attention?
Liniar Windows
- Thread starter gasmaneddie
- Start date
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Just looked up Spectus, group company is Epwin that also has swish, profile 22, Patio master and others
I'm getting in to this double glazing thing
I'm getting in to this double glazing thing
Clients didn't mention it, I work directly for the insurance company and it's frowned upon if I start pointing out other faults, I'm only there to look at and repair the faults the customer has claimed for.
The installation is 5 years old to answer your other question
I notice that the inside of some of these spectus windows is also mouldy. So they are getting condensation on the inside. Is it anything to do with condensation on the inside face? Possibly it is easy for water on the inside face to leak down to the chamber. The bead corners are not welded like the outside.
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Update re Liniar
They have now offered to send a couple of blokes down remove all glass units, clean and reinstall using flexible security tape.
Also I did a test on all my windows and noticed that you can easily slide a business card down between gasket and glass unit from the outside but not inside, is that to be expected?
Not sure what to do, they say they have only ever had one other complaint same issue
They have now offered to send a couple of blokes down remove all glass units, clean and reinstall using flexible security tape.
Also I did a test on all my windows and noticed that you can easily slide a business card down between gasket and glass unit from the outside but not inside, is that to be expected?
Not sure what to do, they say they have only ever had one other complaint same issue
Security tape isn't waterproof so water will eventually soak through, admittedly the drainage in the window should be able to cope with this but you need to make sure the glass packers ARE NOT obstructing the slots AND that they've used bridge packers too. It would be interesting to see if theres water sitting in there right now. Personally I'd still be inclined to refuse the work.
I would suggest my own work around to them, show them the credit card thing, suggest to them there isn't enough compression against the gaskets and that the units need to be thicker, OK the units might be 28mm which may be correct but thats assuming the beads are correct as well, it could be they've fitted triple glazing beads which stand a bit more upright allowing for a thicker unit, its a long shot, I don't know what size their triples are, could be 32,36, I even fitted a few 40's a few months ago for a colleague but they were into spectus. Suggest to them to replace a small unit as a test piece but make it 30 or 32mm, the 30 would need to be double glazed and have 6mm glass for one pane though, the 32 would need to be triple glazed with 4mm panes
I would suggest my own work around to them, show them the credit card thing, suggest to them there isn't enough compression against the gaskets and that the units need to be thicker, OK the units might be 28mm which may be correct but thats assuming the beads are correct as well, it could be they've fitted triple glazing beads which stand a bit more upright allowing for a thicker unit, its a long shot, I don't know what size their triples are, could be 32,36, I even fitted a few 40's a few months ago for a colleague but they were into spectus. Suggest to them to replace a small unit as a test piece but make it 30 or 32mm, the 30 would need to be double glazed and have 6mm glass for one pane though, the 32 would need to be triple glazed with 4mm panes
Does the business card go all the way down? There is a bubble seal and at the base a harder lip. The card should stop at the lip. The bubble is softer. If the card goes all the way down then it sounds to me as though the window is forward enough to press on the seal. You report the back is tight so why is the front lose? Is the frame bowed? That is the glass unit is tight to the corners but the frame bows out making it lose in the middle? Maybe try a long steel rule on the frame (and the glass unit).
It appears liniar use 28mm double or 36mm triple, triple glazing bead part number being LSW042 so is very unlikely this is your problem, a 28mm unit in a 36mm gap would be totally obvious
Paper business card and Nectar card both push in relatively easy even near the corners, I tried on a friends windows and couldn't even get it in with reasonable force
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This is report from site visit in August 2015
Following the recent visit made by myself and colleague to your property please see comments below and proposed course of action.
Observations:
1. Deposits of dirt can be seen between the gasket and external face of the DG units at the bottom of all of the installed windows, French doors and Bi-Fold doors.
2. The bead/gasket compression was checked and found to be correct.
3. The thickness of the DG units were checked and found to be 27.8mm. This is well within tolerance for a 28mm unit.
4. It was noted that the Gaffer type tape used around the perimeter edge of the DGU's is exhibiting a softening of the tape adhesive and resulting in a "sticky" residue. This is also deposited on the gasket surface particularly at the bottom of each glazed aperture. Dirt particles are then in turn sticking to the adhesive residue on the gasket.
Conclusion:
In conclusion I can find no fault with the window and door sections and also with their manufacture and installation.
I believe that it is more than likely that when dirt particles are drawn past the external gasket seal with rain water or when cleaning the windows (which is a normal occurrence with PVCu windows, hence the drainage to allow the water back out), it is sticking to the adhesive residue and not been washed out through the drainage, thus leaving a build up.
You will recall that I stated on the day, it is impossible to prevent dirt from entering the frames and that there will always be an amount that could get trapped between the glass surface and gasket irrespective of what appears to be happening with the tape adhesive in this situation.
I must also say that the use of Gaffer type tape is common practice in the industry to protect the installer when handling the DGU's.
Actions:
In a bid to confirm that the above is the cause of the build up of dirt the Gaffer tape was remove from the external surface edge of one DGU and the adhesive cleaned off. The gasket surface was also cleaned prior to the unit being re-glazed.
The same procedure was done with a second unit but a 1mm D/S Glazing tape was applied to the gasket surface prior to re-glazing. This was done to see if the D/S tape will prevent dirt passing the seal.
We have agreed that you will monitor the two apertures to see if there is any improvement.
I would still suggest that until all the building/renovation work is completed on your property, then there is an increased amount of dirt/dust in the immediate vicinity that will no doubt contribute to the problem. The real test is when this is all completed, particularly the rendering of the external brick.
Obviously, I would expect that you will require work to be done to the balance of the windows and doors if either of the tests proves successful?
However, given that there is no actual fault with the product, their manufacture and installation we would not be responsible to do the work.
Following the recent visit made by myself and colleague to your property please see comments below and proposed course of action.
Observations:
1. Deposits of dirt can be seen between the gasket and external face of the DG units at the bottom of all of the installed windows, French doors and Bi-Fold doors.
2. The bead/gasket compression was checked and found to be correct.
3. The thickness of the DG units were checked and found to be 27.8mm. This is well within tolerance for a 28mm unit.
4. It was noted that the Gaffer type tape used around the perimeter edge of the DGU's is exhibiting a softening of the tape adhesive and resulting in a "sticky" residue. This is also deposited on the gasket surface particularly at the bottom of each glazed aperture. Dirt particles are then in turn sticking to the adhesive residue on the gasket.
Conclusion:
In conclusion I can find no fault with the window and door sections and also with their manufacture and installation.
I believe that it is more than likely that when dirt particles are drawn past the external gasket seal with rain water or when cleaning the windows (which is a normal occurrence with PVCu windows, hence the drainage to allow the water back out), it is sticking to the adhesive residue and not been washed out through the drainage, thus leaving a build up.
You will recall that I stated on the day, it is impossible to prevent dirt from entering the frames and that there will always be an amount that could get trapped between the glass surface and gasket irrespective of what appears to be happening with the tape adhesive in this situation.
I must also say that the use of Gaffer type tape is common practice in the industry to protect the installer when handling the DGU's.
Actions:
In a bid to confirm that the above is the cause of the build up of dirt the Gaffer tape was remove from the external surface edge of one DGU and the adhesive cleaned off. The gasket surface was also cleaned prior to the unit being re-glazed.
The same procedure was done with a second unit but a 1mm D/S Glazing tape was applied to the gasket surface prior to re-glazing. This was done to see if the D/S tape will prevent dirt passing the seal.
We have agreed that you will monitor the two apertures to see if there is any improvement.
I would still suggest that until all the building/renovation work is completed on your property, then there is an increased amount of dirt/dust in the immediate vicinity that will no doubt contribute to the problem. The real test is when this is all completed, particularly the rendering of the external brick.
Obviously, I would expect that you will require work to be done to the balance of the windows and doors if either of the tests proves successful?
However, given that there is no actual fault with the product, their manufacture and installation we would not be responsible to do the work.
Section from February site visit by Liniar sales director
Don't know what exactly you want me to do here?
I came down to investigate a report of an issue with your windows .It is impossible to prevent rain water passing the external glazing seals, hence why there are drain holes within the frame sections to allow this water to escape and not come into the house. Dirt that is in the rain water will obviously be dragged into the frame and some will be deposited on the gasket seal. Whilst this is not a detriment to the function of the windows I appreciate your opinion that it is unsightly. In a bid to offer some help I have offered to fit a black 1mm double sided tape to the gasket to try and prevent the dirt being trapped behind the glass. Your husband informed me that the window in the bedroom was being changed but I still offered to come down and put the tape around the gaskets as I want you to be happy with the windows. I did also advise that this version may cause water to site on the gaskets longer and therefore may have dirt deposited onto the surface of the frame instead of being behind the glass on the gaskets. At least you would not see it on the gaskets from the inside.
I also offered to come down and clean all the gaskets behind the glass however I cannot guarantee a dirt free solution .
I did state to him however, that if dirt does get trapped behind the gasket again I would not be willing to come down again to clean them.
We have the most advanced window system i n themarket producing enough material to manufacture 300,000 frames per month and have never had this issue raised,
We have taken the photos you sent and tried to replicate, without success the issues you have stated.
You have no water ingress into the property and we did neither. That is showing that the window is performing correctly.
Dirt is trapped on the gasket due to the way it works.
Don't know what exactly you want me to do here?
I came down to investigate a report of an issue with your windows .It is impossible to prevent rain water passing the external glazing seals, hence why there are drain holes within the frame sections to allow this water to escape and not come into the house. Dirt that is in the rain water will obviously be dragged into the frame and some will be deposited on the gasket seal. Whilst this is not a detriment to the function of the windows I appreciate your opinion that it is unsightly. In a bid to offer some help I have offered to fit a black 1mm double sided tape to the gasket to try and prevent the dirt being trapped behind the glass. Your husband informed me that the window in the bedroom was being changed but I still offered to come down and put the tape around the gaskets as I want you to be happy with the windows. I did also advise that this version may cause water to site on the gaskets longer and therefore may have dirt deposited onto the surface of the frame instead of being behind the glass on the gaskets. At least you would not see it on the gaskets from the inside.
I also offered to come down and clean all the gaskets behind the glass however I cannot guarantee a dirt free solution .
I did state to him however, that if dirt does get trapped behind the gasket again I would not be willing to come down again to clean them.
We have the most advanced window system i n themarket producing enough material to manufacture 300,000 frames per month and have never had this issue raised,
We have taken the photos you sent and tried to replicate, without success the issues you have stated.
You have no water ingress into the property and we did neither. That is showing that the window is performing correctly.
Dirt is trapped on the gasket due to the way it works.
manufacture of double sided glazing tape said it would destroy gasket if unit had to be replaced as as I'm sure you are aware just wanted to hear it from the manufacture/supplier themselves
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