Interesting, plus a poll

ban-all-sheds said:

Opinions on where that point is will differ, as will what the response should be...

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Let me test this idea.

"Each member of this forum should decide which posts are acceptable, and which should be attacked furiously, viciously or mildly, repeatedly, unendingly or occasionally, according to his own opinions and mood"
Yes?
or
No?

Let me test this idea:

"Each member of the forum should care so little, and have such weak moral principles, that they park them at the door when entering here, and must be quite happy to act as if there is nothing real going on and that they do not have a conscience."
Yes?
or
No?

JohnW2 said:

That's true, and had your "there comes a point" not been preceded by "Yes, because ...", then your question would have been straightforward.

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Err...

Why?

Should the real-life implications and contexts of questions asked here be any of our concern? Yes, because there comes a point where what someone wants to do deserves more than a simple "how to".

How does the "Yes" in there make it not straightforward?

So, if your question had asked "Does there come a point where ..." (Yes or No?) then I imagine that virtually everyone would have answered 'Yes'. However, I don't think that would help in relation to your personal reason for asking these questions.

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My personal reason for asking was to see if people thought that real life should be a concern of ours.

For those that do, then discussions of real life cannot be off-topic.

In the extreme cases such as you have mentioned, in relation to which virtually everyone would agree that the situation was not acceptable (i.e. 'beyond that point') (and assuming that mods did not remove the post/thread), then it is fair enough to comment on those issues, even in an 'Electrics' forum.

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So you agree that real-life implications should be a concern of ours.

There can be no grey areas - there can be no "it depends". On the fundamental principle of whether those things should be a concern it is a binary choice. Either they are, or they are not. Either you think they should be or you think they should not.

Do not try to pretend that where there is a valid "it depends", i.e. where the line is drawn, and what is the best course of action when somebody crosses it means that there is the same variability on the basic principle of whether a line should be drawn or not.

However, if the issue in question is 'not acceptable' ('beyond the point') only to a minority (no matter how strongly held their views) then, IMO, it is not appropriate to express that view in an 'Electrics' forum

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On matters of morality there is nowhere inappropriate to challenge the immoral.

JohnD said:

Some people might say that a DIY forum is not the place for accusations of immorality based on political opinions on the redistribution of wealth, for example by subsidies and energy pricing policy, and whether incentives are, in the opinion of one person or another, virtuous.

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Some people might say that a man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.

Some people might say that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

JohnW2 said:

Some people would indeed say that, and I would have a lot of sympathy with them. I also fully respect the right of people to have the sort of views you mention but, given that there are countless appropriate places where such views and opinions can be aired, discussed and debated, I personally do not think that a "DIY Electrics" forum is an appropriate place for such material/discussions.

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Of course it is.

Everywhere is an appropriate place.

You cannot adjust your moral standards because of where you are.

I agree that this is not a forum on which to initiate some discussions, or to start some campaigns etc, but how can anybody with a conscience ignore what they read here?

By not being obsessive.

When using my radio religion and politics are banded subjects. How one defines them I don't really know as there is country and company internal politics and even the politics within the RSGB.

But however ever much I may disagree with non humane killing I simply can't talk about it on the air waves. The same needs to be considered with the forum. Slightly more lax than radio but same idea.

Often we are fed a blinked view. Until one is truly involved one can really be off base with comments. So where ones area is electrics then keep to electrics. Yes I have used a cat for electrics. On the Falklands I needed to pull in a cable one a cherry picker. I tied some string to the workshops cat and put it inside the boom and it obliged taking the string to other end allowing me to then draw in a new cable. I have also used pet rats to pull cables under the floor boards. But to keep cat or rat just to thread cables is maybe wrong although we don't seem to worry about working dogs, horses, or donkeys.

But people do enjoy winding others up. So where the post says something daft then likely the person does not want a real answer but is hoping for a reaction. Best is simply not to respond. Click report that's end of it.

JohnD said:

By not being obsessive.

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Your definition of "obsessive" is actually "moral, decent, upright, honest, principled".

I can't stop being those, and nor would I wish to.

ericmark said:

When using my radio religion and politics are banded subjects. How one defines them I don't really know as there is country and company internal politics and even the politics within the RSGB.

But however ever much I may disagree with non humane killing I simply can't talk about it on the air waves. The same needs to be considered with the forum. Slightly more lax than radio but same idea.

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Absolutely not.

If you believe in something, or believe that something is wrong, you must speak up. There is a moral imperative. You must not let the immoral and the unprincipled silence you because they just want a quiet life and to not have their lack of morality and principles criticised.

ban-all-sheds said:

ericmark said:

When using my radio religion and politics are banded subjects. How one defines them I don't really know as there is country and company internal politics and even the politics within the RSGB.

But however ever much I may disagree with non humane killing I simply can't talk about it on the air waves. The same needs to be considered with the forum. Slightly more lax than radio but same idea.

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Absolutely not.

If you believe in something, or believe that something is wrong, you must speak up. There is a moral imperative. You must not let the immoral and the unprincipled silence you because they just want a quiet life and to not have their lack of morality and principles criticised.

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Sorry we will have to agree to disagree. To my mind to force ones ideas onto some one else when you know it will cause distress is totally wrong. It's a wonder with your attitude your not banned or have posts deleted.

In fact to select things done because of religion and criticise them without regard would open you and the forum to prosecution.

ericmark said:

Sorry we will have to agree to disagree. To my mind to force ones ideas onto some one else when you know it will cause distress is totally wrong. It's a wonder with your attitude your not banned or have posts deleted.

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I do have posts deleted.

If it causes me distress, and it is done by Mods trying to force their ideas onto me, will you please explain to them that it is totally wrong?

In fact to select things done because of religion and criticise them without regard would open you and the forum to prosecution.

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Completely untrue.