Water getting in around window. Fix?

Mr. Clueless · 6 Feb 2016

Thanks for the response.
Again I'm kind of limited at the moment as I'm at work on my mobile but just quickly I want to check we're on the same page when we talk about window removal.

I'm thinking you're on about the entire thing - so there's absolutely nothing left but a big hole. No glass, no plastic, nothing.

Your last post made me wonder if you only mean part of it such as just the glass?

Gazman16 · 6 Feb 2016

Assuming my idea at the end of my last post is possible it would just mean taking out the glass, fixings and silicone.
You would probably need to be able to lift the window off the cill by about 15-20mm to properly clean and seal it before sliding it back down and re fixing.

If the window cannot be lifted enough to do that then yes the whole window needs to come out really.

Mr. Clueless · 6 Feb 2016

Just to put this one out there, as it's obviously an option.....

Question: What if we just leave it?

What damage will likely occur other than just visual. Obviously wallpaper wont stick & paint would look horrible there. The house isn't likely to come falling down though so what should we expect?

I ask because we're fast coming to the end of our spends. We've probably shelled out in recent times £10k on fixing things in the house. Every repair/job seems to be £500 minimum & we simply don't have an endless supply of money.
Not to mention the fact we've gone without a holiday (not necessarily abroad) for 2 years as we saved to get jobs put right, plus we're soon to be considering whether we start a family or not & we wont be able to afford it if we keep spending 4 figures on the house every 5mins.

As a side note - what would you expect to be done for free by the guys who fixed up the living room?

The living room had bad damp issue which they worked on. This issue regarding the window wasn't apparent before they worked here. It wasn't apparent when we bought the house, it wasn't apparent when the original guys we got in for the damp did work (which was botched big time). It only came about since the last guys carried out work (tanking, plastering, knocking off around windows etc).

Now, i wouldn't expect them to remove the window & replace for free. But would you consider it unreasonable for them to start knocking off plaster on the inside & inspecting / trying to seal from the inside for free since this didn't appear to exist beforehand?

Gazman16 · 7 Feb 2016

No Idea what they will or wont do. you will have to ask them.
If you leave it who knows. I expect that the water was always getting in there and at least contributing to your damp problems. It was most likely blowing up between the window and the cill, Running to the ends of the cill and down into the cavity or inner blockwork before. Somewhere along the lines the new plaster or insulation must have got in the path of that water and is now just showing more than before.

You could chop the plaster back a bit and use pvc trim around the inside of the windows this may stop the wet plaster in the corners but it wont stop the water going wherever it was going before.

Mr. Clueless · 7 Feb 2016

I just thought on...

Although it doesn't explain the 'better' side of the main window or the small window, the bad side - that's where the old phone line came in. Although the BT guy filled the hole with silicone. I wondered if this could be causing how bad it is. But like i said - it doesn't explain the other side & other window.

I've sealed on the inside now - that little track & that hasn't helped it. I guess the only thing left before window out is to remove plaster & seal. If possible.

The guys who did the living room came out & put that white sealant in there. It can still drain out through the window opening holes ok.

Just where i have arrowed - that thin slit running the entire length, can water get in through that at any point along the entire length or not?

I noticed inside the glass in the edges there were bits of green/mould.

So it is impossible for the black rubber seal on the outside (where there's those gaps in the corners) - it is impossible for water to get in there & cause this problem??

Gazman16 · 7 Feb 2016

The drainage is not the slit in your 1st pic. But funny enough your arrow is probably pointing pretty much right at it.
The drainage is through a few elongated holes in the bottom of the front edge of the window, If you bend a paper clip and slide it around where the arrow is pointing you will feel it.
Or you could open the sash and pour a cup of water in there to see where it comes out. They may already have blocked one with that white silicone!

The rubbers gaskets were known from the early days to not be 100% water tight this is why drainage systems are built in.

The slit (again 1st pic) is where water will be getting blown in and along to the ends of the cill and straight into your walls. You could try to seal it (with ou blocking the drainage holes) but a surface seal will never last long in there. It needs to be a bedded on seal aka window up or out cleaned sealed and refitted.

Mr. Clueless · 7 Feb 2016

I checked - they haven't blocked up the drain holes with their sealant.

I've emailed the guy to say where we're at. Let's see what happens.

Unfortunately at the time i thought it was part of the drying out process & i've since paid up full amount, so there's no real incentive for them to come back. They seemed a good bunch of lads.

Gazman16 · 7 Feb 2016

To be honest I wouldn't blame the damp guys here, They have run into an existing problem with the windows that they couldn't have known about.
Might be worth putting a post on facebook, See if anyone you know knows any time served window fitters. They will recognize the problem straight away.

Assuming the windows can be lifted enough as I posted earlier. He could possibly sort out and refit/seal 2-3 windows per day.
Bare in mind this is the sort of job we do hate so some incentive maybe needed. Bacon buttys and an above average day rate never hurt.

Mr. Clueless · 8 Feb 2016

I don't blame them. I just want it fixing. Anyway after it belted it down last night it's looking likely that just leaving it is not an option since it's now stretching to the skim bead.

Personally would you even bother with them (the damp builder fellas) having a go at knocking the plaster off & sealing from inside?

Anyway, what I woke to this morning...

Gazman16 · 8 Feb 2016

Are you sure there were no trims inside on the sides before like the one on the bottom?

I thinks its bad enough that its worth you breaking out a 2" square of plaster in the worst corner back to the bricks and post us some pics of whats in there.

Mr. Clueless · 8 Feb 2016

Gazman16 said:
Are you sure there were no trims inside on the sides before like the one on the bottom?

No, there was trim on the sides. I'm sure i even said this earlier in the thread?

Though since i've said quite a lot you're forgiven for not spotting it if i had said it.

Why, does that make a difference? I would've thought not since surely it's just a strip of plastic put on top of plaster - so anything going on underneath there will go on underneath there regardless.

Gazman16 · 9 Feb 2016

Mr. Clueless said:
Gazman16 said:

Are you sure there were no trims inside on the sides before like the one on the bottom?

Click to expand...

No, there was trim on the sides. I'm sure i even said this earlier in the thread?

Though since i've said quite a lot you're forgiven for not spotting it if i had said it.

Why, does that make a difference? I would've thought not since surely it's just a strip of plastic put on top of plaster - so anything going on underneath there will go on underneath there regardless.

Sorry I'm sure I asked this before and you said no (there are a couple of threads similar to this going on at the moment).
Or did you say yes it was trimmed but the plaster behind did touch the window and the trims were not just covering a gap?

Usually old timber windows that come out are 90-100mm thick and replaced with PVC windows that are 60-70mm thick, This can leave a gap of 20-30 mm that is often covered by a trim.
I'm sure I have said this further back but if your house has brick closed cavity's with a vertical DPC it is possible that the new plaster has bridged the DPC (touching both the inside and outside walls) soaking up moisture.

Breaking out a bit of plaster should reveal this or possibly show any other problems. With how damp the plaster is you have nothing to lose now by breaking a bit off to see whats in behind there.

Mr. Clueless · 9 Feb 2016

I would imagine then just cutting out a say 15mm vertical strip at the bottom but not going upwards too much would be fine (since the top isn't wet for example) & then cover this with trim if it worked?

I honestly can't remember the original plaster & whether it touched or not. I don't think I was there when the first guys knocked that off. It's been a few years now.

Mr. Clueless · 9 Feb 2016

Thinking about it I'm not too sure what you mean by brick closed cavity with vertical DPC.
The house is brick built & does have cavity walls with that fluffy insulation pumped inside.
I'm not sure about any vertical DPC though. I can see the horizontal one when I get under the floorboards.

So if a window fitter was to fit new Windows, seal properly & the plaster met the framework again then we could still be left with this problem?

Mr. Clueless · 10 Feb 2016

My wife was wanting me to ask if it has anything to do with the plaster not being flush.
She said as it was boarded against the window beforehand the level would've been straight whereas now it's just plaster & as you work to the bottom it comes further across the frame.
I can't see it mattering but I said i'd ask...

I took a bit out last night of that corner. I was reluctant to take too much.

Anyway it's very sandy behind there. Once I cut away the plaster &rake the loose out its just like sand.

One thing I forgot to ask: having not been on our first house 12 months yet so I don't know how it all works - can this sort of thing be fixed through house insurance or can you not use it for this kind of thing?

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Water getting in around window. Fix?

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