Split purlins

JoeSan · 7 Feb 2016

Hi there,
First time posting, just looking for a little advice.

I have recently purchased a property and in two of the upstairs bedrooms we have wooden purlins running across the length of the bedrooms (about 6-7m in length). Both of them have horizontal cracks, slight bowing and a split in the centre of both.

Just wondering if anyone was able to give me any idea whether this needs further investigation.

Many thanks
Joe

foxhole · 8 Feb 2016

Should be supported from below, are they loft rooms?

bernardgreen · 8 Feb 2016

Yes it does need further investigation.

JoeSan · 8 Feb 2016

I believe the loft was converted 14-15 years ago. Only been in the property 6-7 months - should this have been something picked up in home buyers report?

Am I looking for a carpenter, or structural engineer?

Many thanks for your replies.

cjard · 8 Feb 2016

Depends what kind of report you were sold.. How much did you pay for it and how many pages long was it?

JoeSan · 8 Feb 2016

28 pages long. Paid £600-700 I believe. Through Nationwide.

cjard · 15 Feb 2016

Mmm... Sadly, I think you might be on a hiding to nothing with that one

chappers · 15 Feb 2016

bernardgreen said:
Yes it does need further investigation.

I would agree for both purlins to have split like that would worry me seriously, particularly as you say they have bowed too.
They shouldn't be running that length unsupported. What worries me even more is that, unsupported purlins like that shouldn't have passed building control, which leads me to ask the question, was the loft ever signed off and what else within the structure may not be strong enough.
It might also simply not be a case of providing support to the existing purlins as the floor structure may not be sufficient to take the load.
I presume that with bowing like that, it is showing on the roof from the outside
Also how high off the floor are the bottoms of those windows, anything below 800mm would have required guarding so if they are below that, that would also indicate that BC sign off wasn't given.
Also 14 years ago there would have been a requirement for escape windows in each room and those would have been top hung with the opening handle at the bottom. Are there other windows in those rooms which may comply?
Would have thought that this might have been mentioned in a homebuyers report, but structural issues aren't really within the remit of such a report.
You need to speak to a structural engineer

Chud · 16 Feb 2016

I'm pretty certain this should have been picked up in the homebuyers report as I think it would class as an 'urgent defect' which should be picked up on any level of RICS survey - if not then it should definitely have been covered under the remit of, '...also includes advice on defects that may affect the value of the property with repairs, and ongoing maintenance advice.'

See:
http://www.rics.org/uk/knowledge/consumer-guides/home-surveys/

Also did your conveyancing solicitors confirm building regs sign off on the work to convert the loft - they should have alerted you if it wasn't in place?

Chud · 16 Feb 2016

If the surveyor has missed it you may be able to claim on their indemnity insurance as it's not like it's concealed or anything.

JoeSan · 16 Feb 2016

Many thanks for all your replies. Structural engineer, believes there is a possibility the purlins may just be decorational and therefore, roof being strengthened and supported in roof with steel support beams.

The three options are to:
Continue to monitor.
Contact our local council for documentation and proof from architect and/or builder to ensure roof was strengthened.
Strip back plaster from next to purlin to look.

We'll be doing the first two at the moment.

On a side note, yes we have a competition certificate for building regulations, signed off after it was inspected last March (prior to us moving in), by the local council building control.

May also contact previous owner to ask them about it.

Many, many thanks for all replies.

Chud · 16 Feb 2016

JoeSan said:
Many thanks for all your replies. Structural engineer, believes there is a possibility the purlins may just be decorational and therefore, roof being strengthened and supported in roof with steel support beams.

The three options are to:
Continue to monitor.
Contact our local council for documentation and proof from architect and/or builder to ensure roof was strengthened.
Strip back plaster from next to purlin to look.

We'll be doing the first two at the moment.

On a side note, yes we have a competition certificate for building regulations, signed off after it was inspected last March (prior to us moving in), by the local council building control.

May also contact previous owner to ask them about it.

Many, many thanks for all replies.

Don't contact the council yet - get on to your solicitor who did the conveyancing first.

Chud · 16 Feb 2016

IMO what you should do is:
1) contact your solicitor (who conveyanced the purchase) for evidence of building regs
2) Check for steel support beams (you can probably get away with drilling a small hole for a borehole camera (less than £10 off ebay for a USB one).
3)If they're not there then you can speak to the solicitor again - like I said the surveyor may become liable through PI insurance - I would have expected the report to say something along the lines of '...split purlins...structure requires checking...cannot see structural support...some evidence of sagging...'
The last thing I would do is contact the council - I may be wrong but I believe they could rock up, take one look and deem the structure unsafe for habitation and make you responsible for making good...not saying you don't want to do that anyway but maybe best to call in other professionals to check everything before you call in the inspectors.

Like I said before there may be some liability with your solicitor if they failed to check for building regs sign off (is the loft conversion mentioned in the property information form?) and/or with your surveyor for missing the purlins...still can't quite figure out how it didn't get mentioned - they're normally pretty paranoid about anything like that.

JoeSan · 16 Feb 2016

We have a competition certificate from the local council that states the loft conversion complied with building regulations. This was requested by our solicitors prior to purchase and completed back in March of last year. Am I correct in thinking the local council would have come round, looked at the conversion and said "yes, all is fine, all building regs complied, here is your certificate"? If so, surely that would mean all is ok? I have been told, however, that the council aren't particularly thorough with their checks...

I do think the surveyors have a little to answer for. Like you said, surely there should have been a note to say "needs further investigation".

The reason I wanted to contact the council was to request copies of, or to view, the architect's and consultant's plans and drawings. I was hoping it would state on there if there were steel support beams placed in the roof to negate the need for the purlins.

Chud · 16 Feb 2016

If you've got the completion certificate from the council then I guess there's no harm in requesting a copy of what information they hold - even if you need to do it under a freedom of information request. What I would try to avoid is saying why you want the information for the time being.

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Split purlins

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