In or out

In or out of the European union

  • Remain in the EU

  • Get out


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And if you're going to use shortest possible distances for travel to the EU, use shortest possible distances to the U.S.A. as well, which is not 5000 miles.
Oh OK, 4,500 miles then. :rolleyes: The cost difference in transport is evident.
And they're not roll on-roll off ferries.
just checked, it's just over 3,000 miles from Liverpool to New York......and very nearly 13 days sailing, compared to as short as 30 minutes to EU.

The actual distance is only slightly relevant. The cost difference is highly relevant...and that's for USA, which could be our nearest sizable market.

Cost of shipping container to EU, less than £1000.
Cost of shipping container to USA, £4,000 to £5,000. And that's before any import taxes, customs duty, etc.
Point made?
 
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A good thing too, because world prices are lower than in the protectionist EU.
Anything to support this claim, tony?
I can find a comparison for CPI's in world countries, but that only:
The Consumer Price Index takes into account the cost of groceries, transportation, restaurants and utilities, each containing a number of variables.
http://www.movehub.com/blog/living-costs-world-map
It doesn't take into consideration wages, etc.
Furthermore, the EFTA countries, well three of them, are in the top four most expensive countries.
Additionally, Commonwealth countries (Australia, New Zealand, Singapore) are higher than EU countries (except Denmark)

If the EU places trade duties on our exports to EU, the UK government will probably retaliate and place import and customs duties on EU imports (why wouldn't they - extra revenue?).
So the cost of EU goods will go up, making the UK a more expensive place to live, not less.
 
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So the cost of EU goods will go up, making the UK a more expensive place to live, not less.

In evidence to a Parliamentary committee a little while ago, professor Patrick Minford stated that prices would go down after a Brexit.
 
"Well he would say that, wouldn't he" Mandy Rice-Davies.
Have you read his book?
The first chapter: "1 Introduction, Summary and Conclusions: Why the UK should Renegotiate or Leave the EU" http://www.patrickminford.net/europe/book_index.html
Now we know where he stands.

This was his basis in formulating his conclusions:
In all cases if the UK left it would be on the basis of unilateral free trade.
para 2.4 page 32.

Published in 2005 BTW.

Also, Patrick Minford wrote another book:
Setting Business Free: Into the Global Economy is the latest piece of research published by The Hampden Trust and The Freedom Association in which Professor Patrick Minford CBE reveals the total cost of the EU and how the case for “Brexit” has now become “overwhelming”.
http://www.betteroffout.net/setting...bal-economy-by-professor-patrick-minford-cbe/

And the Hampden Trust and Freedom Association?
The Freedom Association (TFA) is a pressure group in the United Kingdom that describes itself as non-partisan, centre-right and libertarian, which has links to the Conservative Party and UK Independence Party (UKIP). TFA was founded in 1975 as the National Association for Freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Freedom_Association
Well "surprise surprise" Cilla Black
It's about as far right as you dare to go in main stream politics in UK.
 
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cap flag.PNG
 
Shouldn't that flag be white, tony, judging by the content and contribution to the debate?
 
Point made?
Yes, but you also need to take into account the transport costs after arrival in whichever American or European port to the final point of sale. Land transport here in the U.S. is rather cheaper than in Europe, although obviously for goods arriving on the east coast for sale in the west that's offset by the greater distances involved. I'm not saying that taken as a whole the costs aren't higher, but that it's not so bad as your initial "Europe 20-50 miles, America 5,000 miles" comment might be taken to suggest.

But even acknowledging that the cost of transporting goods to more far-flung places is higher overall, that needs to be balanced against savings made in other areas, such as removing the need to comply with EU directives, not to mention that £33 million per day "membership fee" for the EU. You could ship a lot of containers all around the world for that price each day!
 
But quite obviously they are, to all intents and purposes, trading with the EU, following all the requirements, etc, of the EU.
Only so far as the EU dictates what may be imported, at what tariffs, to what standards and so on. Being within the EU still brings all the regulations about what may be sold within the EU, what standards it has to meet, etc., but also brings all the other red-tape and bureaucracy as well, including a restriction on what's sold in the U.K. and what standards it must meet. The only nominal benefit is in not being subject to import taxes and the like. That's not worth all the disadvantages which come with it.
 
For instance, PBC mentioned the EU arrest warrant as a single issue. But this is another red herring:
How do you figure that when the article to which you linked then expressly indicates that while the U.K. might try to claim back some power it's likely to remain within the EU arrest warrant arrangement?

Just how difficult would it be to reclaim such powers while still within the EU anyway? Remember that according to the EU, a power handed over from a national government to the EU (in their jargon, something which becomes "an EU competence") is done so irrevocably, since the power-grab is a one-way street.
 
Shouldn't that flag be white, tony, judging by the content and contribution to the debate?

I say this with respect but judging from that comment and many others you have made...you aren't British are you?
 
I suggest that the top and bottom of this debate is that no-one can say for certain what would happen if the UK left the EU; it could be bad for us, or better, or things might go along much as at present - economically speaking.

What is certain if we remain 'in', is that the EU will rapidly become more deeply integrated and national governments will become less and less relevant (that is assuming the EU doesn't implode before that).

Benjamin Franklin; 'those who are prepared to loose liberty for a little safety and security deserve neither safety nor security'.
 
You are incorrectly using the word "certain" to describe your opinion.
Is it not an unreasonable opinion to hold, given that the EU itself has a fundamental principle of "ever closer union," and given that its history so far shows that is exactly what is happening?
 
opinions are of course divided.

It is certain that the men who took the first peaceful steps to create European unity by agreement, had just survived the greatest war the world had ever seen (the older of them, the two greatest wars the world had ever seen) and wanted to bring the European nations together so closely that a recurrence would be impossible. This is certain and it is not an opinion, but a matter of historical record.

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