In or out

In or out of the European union

  • Remain in the EU

  • Get out


Results are only viewable after voting.
A result for the Brexit-ers will mean the older, less educated voters have destined the younger, better educated to a life not of their own choosing.

Phew, that's a relief.
Why so?

Sounds like we are exiting.
Why so?
Polls currently are neck and neck, 51% for staying, and 49% for leaving. Did you not read the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35524844
Obviously you couldn't have done otherwise you wouldn't have arrived at the wrong assumption.

Oh sorry, you're basing your assumption on the GD Forum poll. :rolleyes:
 
Sponsored Links
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35524844
Has anybody discussed with their children (assuming they're in the 18 to 30 age group) the assertion that the link makes about younger, better educated voters more likely to vote to remain, and the older, less educated voters voting to leave?

I haven't, but I will next time we meet up. Although I'm pretty certain which way they will vote.
 
VAT on imports to EU from non-EU countries is paid at point of import. Whereas VAT on imports from EU countries is paid at point of consumption.
Thus, the importing countries from UK (France, Netherlands, Spain) will have a huge rise in VAT revenue in the case of a Brexit. Also, the importer will have to pay the VAT, not the consumer.
No, assuming that all the businesses along the way are VAT registered and the final consumer is an individual who is not, then ultimately it's always that end consumer who pays the VAT because at each step along chain the businesses reclaim any VAT they have paid.
 
The suggestion of an EU army is laughable and been disproved several times.
To be fair, I haven't looked into the details of how far that idea has gone, but the concept itselkf is worrying. Are you saying there are now no such plans?

Europol:
What's wrong with that? Very much like Interpol, is it not?
To decry Europol is to decry Interpol, surely.
There's nothing wrong with the basic concept, but there is everything wrong with wanting to create a Europe-wide police force whose members have lifetime immunity from prosecution for anything they do. Law enforcement personnel - whether a small city police force, a national police force, or a pan-European police force - should never be unaccountable for their actions.

Not at all! Trade, notably exports to, with EU would decline, perhaps at an alarming rate. But there's no suggestion of a sudden cut-off.
It would be a gradual realisation of the EU consumer that UK goods are more expensive and perhaps not such good value.
While import taxes might push up the price of British-made goods, that could be offset by the reduced cost of manufacturing the goods once U.K. businesses are freed from the expensive red-tape of complying with numerous laws passed only in order to comply with EU directives. (Assuming that a government with the sense to withdraw from the EU would have the sense to repeal all such damaging legislation too.)

But it's not cheaper, it's more expensive to produce at two different standards. That will simply add an additional layer of expensive to try to compete in EU and other markets.
Of course producing more than one version of something adds to manufacturing costs. But in many cases there are already multiple versions of a product made for different markets.
 
Sponsored Links
A result for the Brexit-ers will mean the older, less educated voters have destined the younger, better educated to a life not of their own choosing.
Or another way of looking at it, a creature born in captivity and trained to be risk averse doesn't understand the value of freedom
That might be an easy way of defining animals mentality. It doesn't apply to intelligent, reasoning adults.
Additionally, if we can negotiate our way out of an agreement, it, by definition, can't be considered as 'captivity'.
Can an animal negotiate it's way out of captivity? The only way out of captivity is by stealth or by force.
But humans are animals unless you dispute this in which case I would agree that you are either a vegetable or mineral since you are demonstrating little intelligence.

BPC? Crikey you'd have more accurate data if you posted info from the voice of Putin, Russia Today... Don't the EU partly fund the BPC?, they certainly gave them a fair few million
 
No-one suggested a sudden drop-off of exports to EU. A gradual decline, perhaps, as I've said, at an alarming rate.
Why would a gradual decline be especially alarming if it were being replaced by a gradual increase in exports to other parts of the world?

Suppose any increase in 'replacement' markets is at a much slower rate. After all, if it was that easy to break into other existing established markets, we'd already be doing so!
Perhaps part of the problem is that British exports are just too expensive because of all the red-tape and costs of being in the EU?

But as indicated, it won't happen. The benefits of the EAW, to the forces of law and order and the government already outweigh the disadvantages.
I would hope that a future government taking the U.K. out of the EU for the right reasons would also withdraw from the European arrest warrant system in order to protect its citizens. But I fear you may be right, since governments of all colors of recent times seem more interested in what's politically expedient for themselves than in protecting the rights of the individual.
 
VAT on imports to EU from non-EU countries is paid at point of import. Whereas VAT on imports from EU countries is paid at point of consumption.
Thus, the importing countries from UK (France, Netherlands, Spain) will have a huge rise in VAT revenue in the case of a Brexit. Also, the importer will have to pay the VAT, not the consumer.
No, assuming that all the businesses along the way are VAT registered and the final consumer is an individual who is not, then ultimately it's always that end consumer who pays the VAT because at each step along chain the businesses reclaim any VAT they have paid.
Taxable Transactions
The main activities subject to VAT are:

  1. supply of goods for commercial purposes, within the territory of a EU country, made by a taxable person.
  2. supply of services: VAT is chargeable in the EU country where the recipient of the service is established.
  3. intra-Community transactions: purchases among traders resident in different EU countries are not considered imports and exports, but intra-Community transactions. Intra-Community acquisitions and supplies of goods made between VAT-registered traders will be charged in the EU country to which the goods are dispatched.
  4. imports: VAT is levied on the importation of goods and usually charged when customs clearance procedures take place in order to be released for circulation. However, when the goods are imported into one EU country but are intended for use or consumption in another, they can be placed under a VAT suspensive arrangement. Under this arrangement, VAT will be charged in the EU country of destination and not in the EU country of entrance in the EU.
Single Administrative Document, which must include the goods value, place of origin, consignee, destination, price, weight, etc.

Information on VAT, excises and customs duties must be filled in box no. 47 of the form.
http://exporthelp.europa.eu/thdapp/...ValueAddedTax.html&docType=main&languageId=en

The piece that I quoted from t'other day clearly stated, as I posted. But this extract clearly shows that VAT is paid by the importer if from outside of EU, it must be paid before release from customs clearance. But paid by consumer if within EU.
 
If ever there was another referendum about re-entry into EU, following a Brexit, you can bet your life it would have been brought about by a wide-spread realisation that the Brexit was a bad decision in the first place.
I think it more likely than any such referendum about re-entry would be more likely due to a future government's ideological stance that the U.K. should simply be in the EU and the belief that the voters in the previous referendum gave the "wrong" answer and should therefore have a chance to vote again and give the "correct" answer.
 
The suggestion of an EU army is laughable and been disproved several times.
To be fair, I haven't looked into the details of how far that idea has gone, but the concept itselkf is worrying. Are you saying there are now no such plans?
There never were any such plans. It was a typical red herring thrown about by the usual suspects.

Europol:
What's wrong with that? Very much like Interpol, is it not?
To decry Europol is to decry Interpol, surely.
There's nothing wrong with the basic concept, but there is everything wrong with wanting to create a Europe-wide police force whose members have lifetime immunity from prosecution for anything they do. Law enforcement personnel - whether a small city police force, a national police force, or a pan-European police force - should never be unaccountable for their actions.
Again there never has been any such plans for a pan-European police force. Another red herring.
You're beginning to sound like you-know-who.

Not at all! Trade, notably exports to, with EU would decline, perhaps at an alarming rate. But there's no suggestion of a sudden cut-off.
It would be a gradual realisation of the EU consumer that UK goods are more expensive and perhaps not such good value.
While import taxes might push up the price of British-made goods, that could be offset by the reduced cost of manufacturing the goods once U.K. businesses are freed from the expensive red-tape of complying with numerous laws passed only in order to comply with EU directives. (Assuming that a government with the sense to withdraw from the EU would have the sense to repeal all such damaging legislation too.)
To continue trading with EU, albeit at a reduced level manufacturers will still need to adhere to EU standards, directives, etc.

But it's not cheaper, it's more expensive to produce at two different standards. That will simply add an additional layer of expensive to try to compete in EU and other markets.
Of course producing more than one version of something adds to manufacturing costs. But in many cases there are already multiple versions of a product made for different markets.
Yes, for the established businesses that export world-wide. But you're arguing that all businesses will be forced to trade wold-wide.
 
No-one suggested a sudden drop-off of exports to EU. A gradual decline, perhaps, as I've said, at an alarming rate.
Why would a gradual decline be especially alarming if it were being replaced by a gradual increase in exports to other parts of the world?
If it were so easy we'd already be doing it. Besides, there's plenty of reasons why exports to EU would decrease at a much faster rate than exports to other markets.

Suppose any increase in 'replacement' markets is at a much slower rate. After all, if it was that easy to break into other existing established markets, we'd already be doing so!
Perhaps part of the problem is that British exports are just too expensive because of all the red-tape and costs of being in the EU?
But they are competitive within EU, that is the point. Additionally, other markets have their own directives, standards, initiatives, etc which we'd have to learn and conform to.
 
If ever there was another referendum about re-entry into EU, following a Brexit, you can bet your life it would have been brought about by a wide-spread realisation that the Brexit was a bad decision in the first place.
I think it more likely than any such referendum about re-entry would be more likely due to a future government's ideological stance that the U.K. should simply be in the EU and the belief that the voters in the previous referendum gave the "wrong" answer and should therefore have a chance to vote again and give the "correct" answer.
I disagree. if the electorate perceive a lowering of living standards (for whatever reason) after a Brexit there may be pressure for a re-entry.
 
A result for the Brexit-ers will mean the older, less educated voters have destined the younger, better educated to a life not of their own choosing.
Better educated in what sense?

Another way of looking at it would be that the older voters have saved the younger, university-brainwashed voters from a future in some kind of EUSSR in which by that time they no longer have the ability to get out peaceably.
 
But this extract clearly shows that VAT is paid by the importer if from outside of EU, it must be paid before release from customs clearance. But paid by consumer if within EU.
Unless it's changed since I was last VAT-registered some years ago, it is actually possible for an importer to have his registration details provided on the shipment so as not to be charged VAT in the first place. But even if not and he has to pay VAT to receive his goods, as a VAT-registered business he will then be able to reclaim that VAT.

That's how the convoluted VAT system works: Each VAT-registered business along the sales chain pays VAT to whoever he buys from and reclaims that amount from Customs & Excise (or equivalent), then he charges VAT to his buyer and forwards that to C&E.

The result - apart from a lot of needless accounting and paper-shuffling along the way - is that a few months later all the businesses involved along the chain have reclaimed the VAT they paid out when purchasing and the net VAT collected at the end of this pointless bureaucratic exercise is that paid on the final purchase price by the end (non VAT-registered) consumer.

And you know who to thank for this ridiculously convoluted system!
 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top