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The only possible survival route for UK following a Brexit...
In what sense will Britian not 'survive' if it leaves the EU?
A turn of phrase. Rather than repeating the last 31 pages (minus the dopey comments from F&I), can I suggest you follow the discussion.

But as a starter, how about the scanario that I presented about 4 pages ago:
No-one suggested a sudden drop-off of exports to EU. A gradual decline, perhaps, as I've said, at an alarming rate.
Suppose any increase in 'replacement' markets is at a much slower rate. After all, if it was that easy to break into other existing established markets, we'd already be doing so!
So consider a scenario of our exports taking a dive, imports continuing, perhaps now more expensive, 'cos we're no longer in EU.
Balance of payments become more of an imbalance. Austerity drive by government, falls in tax revenues (hence why the EU payments won't be redistributed. They'll be retained to make-up loss in tax revenue)
Government devalues Pound to try to make our exports more competitive, fall in UK living standards, migrants decide they're better off elsewhere, (I can hear the Brexit campaigners cheering!). Public sector services start to suffer breakdowns.
Further austerity cuts, NHS, Education, Military, LA, Police budgets cut. Higher educated/skilled indigenous Brit's start to emigrate.

Tories given severe kicking at next General Election. (not 2020, too early, more like 2025 or earlier). Corbyn elected as PM.
Campaigns for re-entry into EU, and starts negotiation.
EU insists on further Austerity cuts, more devaluation prior to adoption of Euro, and insist on acceptance of Schengen Agreement as prior conditions to re-entry into EU.
If UK re-enters EU now at a much reduced level of influence, more like a developing country. It would take 50 to 100 years to regain the level of living standards experienced prior to Brexit.
What a pyrrhic victory for the Brexit bunch, caused by pious deception.
I can imagine the re-entry campaign poster: a picture of Stan Laurel, twiddling his tie (with the inevitable Union Flag print) and the caption: "Another fine mess you've got us into!"
Perhaps the Brexit would become as toxic as the Iraq war to the various political parties..

Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/in-or-out.451748/page-26#ixzz3zxBd7Tqi

That scenario does not include the possibility that I mentioned in another post about the breakup of UK.
On Question Time last night Wales came out firmly in favour of staying in.
Oh My! did you watch a completely different Question tome to the rest of us? Wales is nothing of the sort firmly in favour of staying... I really need some of what you are smoking dude..

Corbyn? Elected? Oh wow.. Get the needle and thread, I think my sides have split laughing... Only immigrants and deadbeats vote for that sad commie..Which one are you?
 
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Once we're out, we're staying out... There is no turning back. If you think so then you really are a space cadet.
 
FFS, at the bottom of your post is a little button that says "Edit". You can use it instead of posting three times in a row.
 
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I know how you feel. Sadly, his racist and offensive posts are being thanked and liked by fender, mitch, JBR, et al (the remainder of the RWR).
They don't have the kahones to troll, themselves, so they thank the racist, offensive trolls. :rolleyes:

A true gem. So good I'm typing my thanks before the adverts (y)
 
Oh it's not due to any lack of kahones Himmy, perhaps a case of just being bored of your relentless drivel. Along with the way you'll use any and every opportunity to brand people racist. I actually find YOU quite offensive for doing so, as I'm not racist, never have been and never will be. You just read into people's posts what you wish to see.
 
OK, I can accept that the example that I highlighted of VAT causing goods in EU, imported from non-EU countries being more expensive and affecting trade, being a poor example.
But the basic tenet that I was trying to illustrate still holds true. For example the import tariff for cars from non-EU countries is about 10%:
Would it be so for cars imported from the U.K. following a withdrawal? Obviously that's something which would be down to negotiation.

The only possible survival route for UK following a Brexit is with a EFTA,
Why? Are the U.S., Canada, Japan, and numerous other countries which export to EU countries all in the EFTA? What do you think makes the U.K. so different that it would need to be in it?

Even Farage, on Question Time last night said, in a lower voice, words to the effect: "we'd have a trade agreement with EU following Brexit", then he quickly moved on.
He didn't mention the problems associated with that, i.e. acceptance of Schengen Agreement and appointment of commissioners to EFTA board. Thus our borders with Europe are removed (including the land border with Eire). The ferries and trains no longer have passport control.
But again, why are you assuming that any such trade deal would involve the U.K. joining the EFTA? What makes you think that a deal could not be reached without that?

If the older generation Brexit supporters win the referendum, based on their 'pride and prejudice', they will have destined the younger more educated to live with a more difficult situation than that which currently exists.
They may have just saved them from a future which could be much, much worse.
 
OK, I can accept that the example that I highlighted of VAT causing goods in EU, imported from non-EU countries being more expensive and affecting trade, being a poor example.
But the basic tenet that I was trying to illustrate still holds true. For example the import tariff for cars from non-EU countries is about 10%:
Would it be so for cars imported from the U.K. following a withdrawal? Obviously that's something which would be down to negotiation.
Why would it be any different? Why would the EU make a special case for UK, unless we were in the EFTA?

The only possible survival route for UK following a Brexit is with a EFTA,
Why? Are the U.S., Canada, Japan, and numerous other countries which export to EU countries all in the EFTA? What do you think makes the U.K. so different that it would need to be in it?
No of course they're not in the EFTA. That is why import tariffs are applied. If we're not in the EFTA, it stands to reason that we'd be subjected to the same import tariffs. Why wouldn't we?
Not being in the EFTA would result in a serious, gradual decline in trade with EU. It would also provide a stimulus to those other EU countries, replacing the loss in industry and commerce lost with UK. This would further dilute and degrade the position of the UK. A position we would have difficulty in recovering from.

Even Farage, on Question Time last night said, in a lower voice, words to the effect: "we'd have a trade agreement with EU following Brexit", then he quickly moved on.
He didn't mention the problems associated with that, i.e. acceptance of Schengen Agreement and appointment of commissioners to EFTA board. Thus our borders with Europe are removed (including the land border with Eire). The ferries and trains no longer have passport control.
But again, why are you assuming that any such trade deal would involve the U.K. joining the EFTA? What makes you think that a deal could not be reached without that?
We've already discussed this in previous posts. If the EU made a new deal with UK following Brexit, the other 4 countries, currently in EFTA, would want the same kind of deal, if it was more preferable than being in EFTA. Therefore the EU is unlikely to consider a different deal for UK than currently applies to EFTA.

If the older generation Brexit supporters win the referendum, based on their 'pride and prejudice', they will have destined the younger more educated to live with a more difficult situation than that which currently exists.
They may have just saved them from a future which could be much, much worse.
The reverse also applies.
We were talking about better educated (e,g, Uni grad's, but not only those) most likely to vote to remain.
What the better education encourages is to indulge in intellectual pursuits, such as investigative journalism, questioning of assumptions, researching the data behind the claims, creation of innovative solutions, identifying alternative scenarios, awareness of arguments based on pragmatism instead of prejudice, etc, etc.

Thus the better educated are more likely to arrive at a more reasoned, intelligent, pragmatic and sound decision, rather than one based on pride and prejudice.
 
I know how you feel. Sadly, his racist and offensive posts are being thanked and liked by fender, mitch, JBR, et al (the remainder of the RWR).
They don't have the kahones to troll, themselves, so they thank the racist, offensive trolls. :rolleyes:

A true gem. So good I'm typing my thanks before the adverts (y)
I've noticed how you, F&I, and fender are increasing each others' thanks count based on racist, offensive or silly comments like yours above.
Do you not consider that to be disingenuous?

Oh well, I suppose the GD forum is what it is.:rolleyes:
 
........., as I'm not racist, never have been and never will be.. .
.... Care to explain why when Muslims move to a certain area, rape goes up? .......
I think there's something gone wrong with your self-awareness.
Not really.
It's not racist to state a fact, and I think you'll find many Germans and Swedes would agree.
Anyway, we've been there before and it's pointless doing it again. Some people are simply in denial.
 
Some people are simply in denial.
Absolutely agree. I'll even consider giving you a thanks for that one. :rolleyes:

To address the rest of your comment:
It's not racist to state a fact,
Agree. It is racist to misquote, twist the truth and highlight inaccurate reports presented as fact.

and I think you'll find many Germans and Swedes would agree.
Perhaps, it doesn't mean that they're not racist as well. Or they've been presented with twisted data and accepted the prejudicial reports.

Additionally, one who supports, by liking or thanking racially offensive comments can be construed as a racist.
 
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More like data / reports are twisted the other way around to hide the truth.
Why do you think Sweden stopped recording crimes by ethnicity?
Have you forgotten how Germany immediately tried to cover up that the main perpetrators of the Cologne abuse / rapes were immigrants of a certain faith?
People that bandy around the word racist at every opportunity, are (imo) the root cause of issues like the Rotherham scandal going unchecked and allowed to continue. Those in authority are afraid of being branded racist by blinkered people like you.
 
And how many Muslim females are abused every day on the streets of UK?
It's so prevalent they don't bother reporting it. They accept it goes with the territory.

Islamophobic Britain: Where Muslim women are spat on, punched and covered in faeces
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/wo...-women-are-spat-on-and-covered-in-faeces.html
"I've always felt there’s an overlap between Muslim hate crime and violence against women," she explains. "There’s definitely a gender element to it, with racists thinking, ‘It’s OK because she’s a woman and won’t say anything or do anything’.
Such brave abusers!

That's just one of numerous such reports.
 
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My apologies, but the racists have managed to degrade the discussion down to their favorite issue, yet again!
Islamophobia! :rolleyes:
 
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