Electronically controled motor

333rocky333 · 13 Feb 2016

http://productfinder.wilo.com/en/GB/productrange/000000220003aad200010023/fc_range_description

unable to contact wilo till monday and dont know how to open a ZIP file on there website.

basically these pumps were fitted recently

These were fitted xmas by another firm and the companies been told there wired wrong and I got the task of going to look and report back.

Now in the past, the old motors were direct via starters and start load has often tripped the mcb's often resulting in type D breakers in the panels.
I was also under the impression larger motors need overload protection, which was usually fitted on the contacters in the panel.

However these units are electronically controlled via data cables within the black box.
Therefore the 3 phase is now direct from the C16 Triple mcbs in 2.5 singles aprox 10 metres in galv 50 x 50 trunking , via 32a isolators, hence no contactors with no fitted overloads.

my question is would these motors still have a start surge or be ok on Type C breakers and would these new style motors have fitted protection negating need for fitted overloads in the panel.
The motors are rated at 14.5 amp yet when tested were only 2.4 amp, but assured that would increase on demand.
I just wanted a heads up before phoning Wilo and if to involved refer it back to someone more knowledgable
thanks

Echo the husky · 14 Feb 2016

As these are inverter driven the starting current will be very low, and will smoothly ramp up to the required output. They also have built in overload protection:
Safety functions:

Full motor protection with integrated trip electronics.

I would expect a C type MCB to be fine.

333rocky333 · 14 Feb 2016

Thanks freddo

Lectrician · 14 Feb 2016

Yep, they are fully self contained. Prob have overheat cutout via thermistors in the windings too.

jj4091 · 14 Feb 2016

For the future if it helps http://www.winzip.com/win/en/downwz.html

Echo the husky · 14 Feb 2016

Is that the link you meant to post?

Adam_151 · 14 Feb 2016

freddo said:
I would expect a C type MCB to be fine.

Not that you'd do it, unless it was an obselete board and getting the breakers you wanted was difficult.... but you'd probably find that they'd actually be alright on B types! Plenty of inverter drive AC units out there supplied on B types!

ericmark · 14 Feb 2016

The problem I found with inverter controlled motors is every one seems to have different ways to set the ramp up and down and speeds so one has to sit and read the instructions carefully, unlike the old star/delta where you had a good idea how it should be wired.

The motors you have looking at link have many ways to be set up, they have variable speed and can be set as second being stand-by or run together. When you say some one said wired up wrong I wonder why they thought they were wrong? If some one remembers old ones alternating each time they fired up and now same one fires up each time that would also be considered as wired up wrong.

eveares · 14 Feb 2016

jj4091 said:
For the future if it helps http://www.winzip.com/win/en/downwz.html

freddo said:
Is that the link you meant to post?

Yes, it's a program that allows you to unzip and open the contents inside ZIP files. WinRAR is another alternative to unzip and open ZIP files.

Echo the husky · 14 Feb 2016

Oh sorry I missed the part about Rocky not being able to open zip files.

333rocky333 · 14 Feb 2016

Eric,
what they were saying is that if the things run at full load they are likely to trip the C16 breakers and therefore they need larger cable and breakers.
They have been set up to a management system, so set up by others, when they went to connect the data, it was there engineer that reported back about the mcbs, we only have the mains side to investigate.

Adam,
they are ABL sursum breakers, so with no start surge can leave them be, but apreciate what your saying.
I need to read up on these inverters and what they do

Simon35 · 14 Feb 2016

333rocky333 said:
Eric,
what they were saying is that if the things run at full load they are likely to trip the C16 breakers and therefore they need larger cable and breakers.
They have been set up to a management system, so set up by others, when they went to connect the data, it was there engineer that reported back about the mcbs, we only have the mains side to investigate.

Adam,
they are ABL sursum breakers, so with no start surge can leave them be, but apreciate what your saying.
I need to read up on these inverters and what they do

Those 16 amp type c breakers will be fine. The inverter, not the mcb's, will protect the motor.

333rocky333 · 19 Feb 2016

well spoke to wilo.
They said all motors need motor rated circuit breakers and external overloads are at clients discretion.
so basically they wernt much help, anyway now got to source 16amp type D breakers, ELI measured 0.31 ohms.

In addition we had to take old the invertors, aint got a clue what to do with them, are they of use or can be used for other things, anyone want them, any offers

http://nicontrols.com/uk/skc3400400-control-techniques.html

Lectrician, can they be used for your project, there going cheap

Simon35 · 20 Feb 2016

333rocky333 said:
well spoke to wilo.
They said all motors need motor rated circuit breakers and external overloads are at clients discretion.
so basically they wernt much help, anyway now got to source 16amp type D breakers, ELI measured 0.31 ohms.

In addition we had to take old the invertors, aint got a clue what to do with them, are they of use or can be used for other things, anyone want them, any offers
http://nicontrols.com/uk/skc3400400-control-techniques.html

Lectrician, can they be used for your project, there going cheap

The inverters must have been fitted for a reason. What was the reason?

If you get them set up properly you dont need to change your mcb, and you certainly don't need a motor rated one.

333rocky333 · 20 Feb 2016

Simon35 said:
The inverters must have been fitted for a reason. What was the reason?

the old motors had independant inverters, the new motors come as a package with inverters mounted on them, these were fitted by another company

If you get them set up properly you dont need to change your mcb, and you certainly don't need a motor rated one.

It was yet another company setting them up, that said they want them changed and they are setting them up nationwide and also WILO technical dept have now said they need to be motor rated mcb's

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Electronically controled motor

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