3 spots replacing a single light, do i need spurs?

[Tim Mackey]

hi,
i bought 3 halogen spotlights that don't need transformers. i have them fitted but not wired. i removed the existing single light fitting (one switch for one light) and there were 3 wires going in to it: 2 blue and 1 brown.
the halogen lights are independant of each other, but i want them all to work off the existing switch, so i do i need to add 2 spurs off the existing circuit?
the light instructions say the lights are double insulated and shouldn't be earthed.
thanks for any help.
tim mackey. a newbie.

 

[breezer]

you wire them in paralell.
(but you must STILL connect the earths)
see for reference

 

[Tim Mackey]

hey breezer. thanks for the quick reply. just one or two clarifications.. i'm not a trained electrician, but i can do simple jobs and follow instructions carefully if i am clued in at every stage, so i appreciate you spelling out the steps.

i found your diagram with lights in parallel. and i can see that i'll need to buy some new cable to reach around to the 3 new halogen lights from the old rose location. what type of cables should i get? they will be running on top or under loft insulation.

with regard to the earthing.. all i can see from the old light is 2 blue and 1 brown cable. i take this to mean that i don't need to do any earthing with the new light fittings? the 2 blue cables go into the same terminal in the rose fitting, can you explain how these cables will fit into the new circuit design? one at least i'm sure will plug in to the first terminal in the parallel circuit, but what about the other blue cable?

sincere thanks for any help
tim

 

[breezer]

i can not take credit for the parallel drawing.
use 1.5 mm twin and earth cable
put a jucntion box where the ceiling rose was, and wire it as the rose is now, excepth where the pendnant lamp is the new t&e cable goes to the first light etc.

Earths must be connected, i will guess it is there but just yet you havent seen it (unless they have used flex)

following on from the flex the existing cable can you describe it (sorry this is not a joke) ie its shape, aprox size, colour of outer sheath

 

[Tim Mackey]

hi breezer.
i've drawn a picture of the ceiling rose + wiring:

there is no earth wire going in to the rose, i've checked in the ceiling. i guess this is a 'flex' installation as you suggested?

here is the plan so far with the new layout:

i guess since there is only one live brown wire, it leads to the switch.

i bought the junction box today and the man in the shop suggested hooking in 3 blue and 3 brown wires to it, a pair for each of the spots. this seems to be the in 'series' approach, which i also saw a diagram of in the for reference section. would this be a simpler arrangement, given the fact that the junction box is in the middle of the spots?

i really appreciate your help
tim

 

[breezer]

if its easier then yes do it, and if you draw it on paper you will see they will be in paralell not series, since all blues one terminal all browns the other.

i am still not happy about the earth

 

[Tim Mackey]

hi breezer. i appreciate your concern about the earth. the house is quite new, about 8 years old, part of a residential estate, so i presume the electrics were all done to modern standards. i checked in the attic and there is an earth cable but it doesn't come anywhere near the ceiling rose. i checked all the other upstairs roses and they none of them have earth wires. the downstairs ceiling roses do have earths. is it such a problem since the light fitting instructions say that the units must not be earthed anyway?

 

[breezer]

although the lights you have now are double insulated, what if you change them, what if your arm is wet when you turn off a light (earth in switch patress)

I can only suggest, what you do is up to you

 

[plugwash]

join the existing earth cable in the attic to a new cable and bring it to the location of your original fitting and then join it to the earths in your new spur runs.

the worst thing you can have in a system earthing wise is earth cores that are not connected.

 

[Tim Mackey]

hi,
thanks for all the help breezer, and the suggestion from plugwash.
i have it working now, albeit without any earthing. this is what the fitting manufacturers recommended, and the less wiring i have to do the better as i'm not a pro electrician

i have attached a diagram for reference, DISCLAIMER: i am NOT an electrician and this setup works for me and maybe it will be of use to someone in a similar situation. the experts on this forum recommend you use earthing so listen to them or get a local electrician if in doubt.

the instructions said i should leave a clearing of 110mm around and above the fitting for heat clearance. at present i have cut holes of that radius in the loft insulation, but because the insulation could move over time, or bits of it could blow on top of the fittings in a draft, i put plastic flower pots (250mm diameter) sitting on top of the fittings. this seems like a practical and inexpensive way to reduce the fire hazard of having halogen lights in close proximity to loft insulation, is this a good idea?

thanks for you help guys. this is an amazing forum. hey breezer, do you have a paypal account set up or anything? i'd like to chuck a few bob your way for your advice and assistance. maybe i could buy you a book on amazon or something!
tim

 

[breezer]

hey breezer, do you have a paypal account set up or anything? i'd like to chuck a few bob your way for your advice and assistance. maybe i could buy you a book on amazon or something!
tim

very kind of you, but like the others, we do it because we want to, not for financial reward

 

[Lectrician]

I would be worried about the flower pots melting and catching fire, if you wish to cover the lights, use downlighter fire hoods!!!

I would also, as others, be concerned about the earth for the future.

 

[Tim Mackey]

ah ha! i didn't know such a product exists, i looked around in homebase but didn't see any likely candidates so went to the gardening section instead i checked the pots for temperature after leaving the lights on for an hour and they were stone cold, but i'll go with the fire hoods, they sound better !!
cheers
tim

 

[notb665]

That is bizarre not having an Earth coming where the other cables do.

I would contact the people who built the house/your solicitor (maybe) to find out why.

 

[laughingjester]

why are you fitting halogen lights in yuor house ..? you growing something you should'nt be ?