Adding a permanent socket which plugs into another socket

[ams64]

It may seem like a silly question but I want to install a new socket in my garage and to avoid having to get new permanent wiring certified by an electrician I want to create a permanent ie wiring clipped to walls extension which plugs into an existing socke and terminates in a new socket... Is this contravieing regulations - or is it okay to do this? I also want to feed a lighting spur from this new, plugged in extension... Is this okay as well. Many thanks.

 

[FingRinal]

Cable fixed (clipped), socket fixed (screwed)...seems to tick the right boxes for notifiable if the garage is detached.

 

[RF Lighting]

Why do you say that?


Have you ever actually read approved document P?

Table 1: Work that need not be notified to building control bodies

[paragraph 2] Work that is not in a kitchen or special locaton and does not include a special installation (e) and consists of:

Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit (f)
Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit (f)



(e) Special locations and installations are listed in table 2
(f) Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety precautions are satisfactory.

I can't see detached garages on that list. Can you?

 

[FingRinal]

Check note F (found in the part you haven't posted, or read)

 

[saxondale]

Check note F (found in the part you haven't posted, or read)

is he busted LOL?

 

[RF Lighting]

What, you mean the part where it says:

"f. Detatched garages and sheds are NOT special locations. Work within them is notifiable only if it involves new OUTDOOR wiring"

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Alternatively, read the actual Building Regulations, rather than the Approved Document.

The Building Regulations make "an outdoor lighting or electric power installation" a special installation, and sockets in a garage, even if detached, are not outdoors.

And given that the OP was contemplating plugging something into an existing socket, it's highly likely that it's already got at least one socket in there, or is not detached.

However...

It may seem like a silly question but I want to install a new socket in my garage and to avoid having to get new permanent wiring certified by an electrician I want to create a permanent ie wiring clipped to walls extension which plugs into an existing socke and terminates in a new socket... Is this contravieing regulations - or is it okay to do this?

No it's not "OK" - it is cheap and nasty and tacky and inappropriate. Even if doing it properly were notifiable the advice to you should still be "do it properly".

It may also be unsuitable for the environment, given the risk of damage to such a cable, and it might therefore be unsafe.

I also want to feed a lighting spur from this new, plugged in extension... Is this okay as well.

No.

Ditto.

Do it properly.

 

[RF Lighting]

 

[vsynth]

I've been told by an NICEEIC registered guy that because you are taking an earth from one equipotential zone into another that this connection must be permanent and not plug/socket...that was his answer to my question about what's to stop people plugging their shed in with an extension lead

Must be something in the regs somewhere, I'll get me spade!

 

[FingRinal]

BAS, who cares about the Building Regs day to day? Do drivers drive around with the plethora of Road Traffic, Road Vehicle Acts and Regulations etc.? Or do they get themselves a copy of the Highway Code?

This just highlights a desperation to find a phrase in any document anywhere to pick over until the ink has faded in order to justify an armchair critic's position.

RF - nice try. Vey slippery and misleading:

Work within them is notifiable only if it involves new OUTDOOR wiring".
Why not highlight the other word?

Work WITHIN them is notifiable only if it involves new OUTDOOR wiring" ??

Now I NEVER said it definitely was, I used the word SEEM...

In my opinion, it does fall within the scope of Part P, not least because of the increased danger posed by contact with the true mass of earth via a concrete base in what will more likely to be a TNCS (PME) installation. And it is for this reason that the ECA and the NICEIC (ESC) no doubt made many amendments to the Governments 'fag packet'.

But, anyone can call a Part P Scheme help line. Why not avail yourself of this service and find out what THEY say?? What price a lo-call chat compared to possible electrical danger?

And BAS, instead of chipping in, why don't you answer the question I asked you before? Were you banned from the IET Forum?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS, who cares about the Building Regs day to day?

Are you saying you don't care about the law?

This just highlights a desperation to find a phrase in any document anywhere to pick over until the ink has faded in order to justify an armchair critic's position.

No - I think that what this highlights is a desperation on your part to try and start an argument with me over everything I post because you seem to be on some pathetic, petty and childish mission to denigrate me.

Grow up or go away.

In my opinion, it does fall within the scope of Part P, not least because of the increased danger posed by contact with the true mass of earth via a concrete base in what will more likely to be a TNCS (PME) installation.

1) Any work on the installation in dwellings etc falls within the scope of Part P. The question is whether it is notifiable.

2) If special precautions are needed because a TN-C-S earth is being exported to a location with extraneous-conductive-parts then that does not affect whether the work is notifiable.

And it is for this reason that the ECA and the NICEIC (ESC) no doubt made many amendments to the Governments 'fag packet'.

Neither of those organisations have the power to amend legislation.

And BAS, instead of chipping in, why don't you answer the question I asked you before? Were you banned from the IET Forum?

Why do you want to know?

And just why do you think that I should have to answer that before posting anything else here?

 

[saxondale]

And just why do you think that I should have to answer that before posting anything else here?

because you make out your some superhero, legal expert, damm good sparky when really your running out of forums to post your misleading, pedantic, frustrating and condesending drivel on perhaps?

 

[DARTHVADER]

My God! way too much time on your hands some of you.

 

[FingRinal]

Apparently, if you trawl the Screwfix Forum, it's possible to find out why BAS was banned from the IET Forum under the alias Non Sparky...

But seriously, the OP posed a very serious question. Many people think that plug in 'fixed' extensions are exempt from Part P simply because B&Q sell them and they can be unplugged. And they wouldn't sell them (and they wouldn't be made) if they didn't comply, would they? Well, B&Q also sell bricks, but that doesn't mean you can build an extension without planning permission.

It is, however, important to challenge accepted thinking. I tell my clients that I represent them and not the IET and the Government.

(ps - BAS, I simply don't read your line for line nit picking. I'm sorry but I just can't be doing with it. I gave up after the second time - yes, I made it that far!!)

 

[ams64]

thanks everyone for the advice. I want to do the job properly so I will have to hard wire into the existing circuit. I'm happy to do this but I need to know how I can comply with the regulations. Do I need to get an electrician in to sign it off or is there another way?