Advice please - minor electrical repairs/works

[Newboy]

I am a non-electrician (work in the building trade) all electrical works are carried out by qualified electricians. I am occasionally asked can I make a minor repair (replace damaged switch-plate, socket, luminaire, change an appliance etc.

The sparks I work with say no problem, you're capable of doing minor works, understand what you're doing and have a methodical approach.

What does the law permit ? - I think I know the answer but would appreciate other interpretations

To put into context, I would never risk the safety of anybody or myself.

 

[Crystalclear]

Saving on paying for a qualified lad is cost effective, but why risk the life of another?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Or, from your point of view, will you be blamed if something goes wrong.

Are you insured by them?

 

[JohnW2]

What does the law permit ? - I think I know the answer but would appreciate other interpretations.

The law (Part P of the Building Regulations) permits anyone to do any electrical work (minor or major) provided they are competent to do it (and do do it) 'safely'. The technical stumbling block is that the only way to confirm that it has been done safely is to undertake tests, for which non-electricians are usually not equipped and/or do not have the knowledge to undertake the tests.

Having said that, as you know as well as I do, a lot of minor (and some major) electrical work is undertaken by non-electricians - but usually in the context of 'DIY', not 'commercial work'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Newboy]

Sorry - misunderstanding.

I'm not suggesting piggybacking on somebody else trade (or insurance) nor trying to save money.
The biggest difficulty is finding a sparks who wants to turn out to replace a switchplate etc. The lads I work with generally work on re-wires etc. and past experience with other qualified spark undertaking minor works is that they have done nothing that I wouldn't

As far as responsibility/blame in concerned - I'm take responsibility for my own actions (electrically or for any other aspect of my work)

Back to the original question

What does the law permit ? - I think I know the answer but would appreciate other interpretations

 

[EFLImpudence]

As far as responsibility/blame in concerned - I'm take responsibility for my own actions (electrically or for any other aspect of my work)

That's not the point.

Is it your job to do these things or will you be *******ed for doing them if something goes wrong and

will you be compensated should you get injured or told it was not your job to do them?

 

[JohnW2]

Back to the original question

What does the law permit ? - I think I know the answer but would appreciate other interpretations

I've already answered that. However, as others are pointing out, even if the work is lawful, that does not mean that it would be neceesarily acceptable to insurers, your employer (if you have one) or contracted customers etc. for you to do the work.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The law (Part P of the Building Regulations) permits anyone to do any electrical work (minor or major) provided they are competent to do it (and do do it) 'safely'.

That's not the only law which applies in this case.

 

[scousespark]

In your first post you said electricians ask you to do some jobs. In this case they are responsible for the job.
You then posted that you sometimes can't get an electrician to come and do a small job. If you do the job yourself, you will be responsible. If anything goes wrong, you could land in trouble. Even a small job needs to be tested (as John posted). As you are charging, there is a legal framework and a requirement for you to be insured.

 

[ericmark]

The laws include the heath and safety at work act, and trading laws. It's not against electrical regulations or building regulations the BS7671 simply says you must have the skill required, it does not say you must hold a qualification. The building regulations say you must notify certain work, but it is down to the building inspector to decide if you have the skill required.

In general any tradesman needs insurance to cover any errors. Insurance is odd in that unlike any other trading practice it is up to you to tell the insurance of risks not up to them to ask, with the exception of motor insurance. So for example if you are colour blind you have to tell them, they don't have to ask. So the insurance can assume if you ask for insurance to do electrical work that you have the skill, and should you not have the skill they can refuse to pay out.

One always hopes nothing goes wrong. But some of the things I have seen one would have never expected in one case some one sprayed Cillit Bang on a socket and bang the socket was gone. Clearly a stupid thing to do, but people do stupid things, and when they do they will always try to blame some one else. Many of the reported court cases one sees how it was not really the electrician who did anything wrong, but the courts have decided he should have found the problem and corrected it. Down to a warranty of skill. With Emma Shaw case the electrical foreman did not even visit the site, but the court found him guilty. And for you well worth reading as this was all down to using unskilled labour.

I will admit many so called electricians take chances. They will change a socket or switch without completing a minors works certificate or testing and just hope nothing goes wrong. But people are stupid we read again and again comments like they got a mild shock but did not think anything of it. One also sees conflicting reports in news papers so never really sure what went on. From reports I read an elderly land lady rented out a house and got a report from the new tenants that they had got a shock, so she engaged an electrician, but before he arrived a female tenant was killed. The husband had not yet moved in and one asks the question when they knew there was a fault why did they continue in the process of moving in? It also seems the oil filled radiator belonged to the tenant. The courts decided the elderly land lady was at fault for renting out the house before having the electrics checked. See this report and the list goes on.

These cases fortunately are not that common, so a tradesman can be lucky and have never a need to attend court. If an electrician has a full test kit he can claim he tested even if he didn't, but if you don't own the kit it would be hard to convince a court it was OK when you left. Remember compensation is on top of the fines so having to pay out half a million is not unusual if some one is injured. So insurance is really a must.

 

[JohnW2]

In your first post you said electricians ask you to do some jobs. In this case they are responsible for the job.

What you say about the OP's first post might be true, but he did not explicitly say that it was electricians who "occasionally asked him to make a minor repair" - I have to say that I presumed that the request came from someone (maybe his employer, or other tradesmen) other than electricians. The only reference to electricians in that post is the OP telling us that "the sparks he works with" told him that it would be OK for him to do such jobs - which I took to mean that he had asked for their advice about the legalities, in a general sense, just as he has in this forum. I therefore suspect that no electrician would be responsible for the sort of jobs concerned - in which case, as you say, the OP would "be on his own".

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

FFS Do you have a problem with me? You seem to want to pick up every post I make to look for something to correct. Does it matter if the request came from an electrician/other tradesman/foreman or anyone else on the site? BTW if the work is not on a domestic property, Part P does not apply.

 

[JohnW2]

FFS Do you have a problem with me? You seem to want to pick up every post I make to look for something to correct.

Does that not sound like a very familiar phenomenon?

FWIW, there was no ill-intent on this occasion - I merely thought you had mis-read the OP.

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

Fair enough. My point wasn't referring to who asked for the job to be done. It was that there are 2 scenarios. In the first, there is an electrician on site, but not in the second.

 

[JohnW2]

Fair enough. My point wasn't referring to who asked for the job to be done. It was that there are 2 scenarios. In the first, there is an electrician on site, but not in the second.

OK, but that was sort-of my point. My understanding (taking on board all the OP's posts) is that there are electricians on site only when major work (like re-wires) is being done, and that it was probably when that was happening that he took the opportunity to seek their advice about the 'legality' of him doing minor jobs, but that it was difficult to get electricians to come to do just very minor jobs, so that someone (we don't know who) asked him to do the 'minor repair jobs'. However, I may be wrong! I also got the impression that we were talking about residential properties - in which case Part P would apply - but, again, I may be wrong.

I suppose that whether the person who asked him to do these jobs would be 'responsible' for the work depends upon exactly who did the asking and what relationship that person had to the OP. If it was his employer or contracted client then they probably would be, at least in some senses, 'responsible'. However, if it were, say, some other contracted tradesman who noticed a damaged accessory and asked the OP '"if he could replace it", that would probably be a very different matter.

Kind Regards, John