Aerial/sat faceplate...

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Hey guys.

We've just got our place and currently doing the lounge, and want the tv wall to be as neat as poss.

We've not decided on sky or virgin yet, but need to get the cables in.


I want to have TV aerial, sat aerial, phone socket etc all in one place. I've always seen these faceplates that have all in one, but i've never experianced them.

Are they any good and will i be able to do what i want with it?


Many Thanks.
 
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Behind a plate like that you'll have just 3 cables connected. These will be one telephone cable, one satellite grade coax to SAT2, and one satellite grade coax to that is the feed to the filters that split off FM/DAB and TV and Sat1. These all work at different frequencies. Somewhere else in the house there's a TV distribution amp that takes in a satellite feed, an aerial feed, and feeds from FM and DAB aerials. It combines them in to a single signal. This goes out to each wall plate.

I see tremendous value in combining TV(Freeview), FM and DAB signals. Sticking a satellite feed via this system though is a PITA.

Satellite can't be distributed in the same way as TV and Radio signals. You want either one or two direct feeds to a satellite receiver straight from the LNB on the dish. These combined plates give the impression that satellite can be distributed just like an aerial feed. However, if you try to split one feed to two or more boxes then you'll find you get failed recordings or no reception on one or more box. Keep it simple. Go direct. The same goes for Virgin.

On a personal note, I think Virgin's picture sucks. I have a customer with a Virgin V+ box. It's the SD/HD recorder one step down from the TiVo box. TV and broadband comes in via the cable buried in the street. His internet speed is monster. 18 megs. That's tonnes to do live streaming at decent quality. Yet his HD feed via Virgin is barely better than standard def' Freeview. I checked it wasn't the TV or cables at fault. Then I checked the box settings; there aren't many so that didn't take long. Nothing could be done to improve the V+ picture. Make sure you see a Virgin signal for yourself before you sign up.
 
Satellite can't be distributed in the same way as TV and Radio signals. You want either one or two direct feeds to a satellite receiver straight from the LNB on the dish. These combined plates give the impression that satellite can be distributed just like an aerial feed.
It's not "just like an aerial feed" but if you want to distribute from one dish to lots of receivers you can do it with a device called a multiswitch. Most modern multiswitches also have inputs for terrestrial TV and radio signals so you can combine those in too.
 
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I'm aware of multiswitches, and now so too is the OP I hope, thanks. I just think that if someone has come on asking how triplex and plates work that it's probably OTT to start talking about a £300~£500 headend solution with mutliswitch, launch amp, PSUs, cabinet, quattro LNB and taps. I might be misreading the situation, but my guess is that all they really need is £40 loft box, some diplex plates, a few Sky eyes perhaps and some telephone wall plates.

Maybe Screech20 will come back and tell us that he does want to spend £300+ and I'll have to eat my own words... Who knows? :LOL:
 
Thanks for the replies, and don't worry, no words to be eaten here.

So it seems it's not as simple as i wanted it to be then.


Maybe it would be simpler if I asked for the easiest way to do what i want to do...

1, Have minimal faceplates under the tv (that will be on the wall with cables chased in down to the sockets)

2, Have tv aerial, sky+/virgin, and phone socket.

3, Also have aerial, and sky/virgin in the bedroom.


Whats the difference with sky and virgin cable wise? What am i going to need?


Cheers.
 
Sky you can (if you wish) run all your own cabling without too many issues. It's simply good quality satellite grade coax (WF100 twin the thicker stuff, or WF65 twin which is the thinner stuff). For a simple installation each recorder box requires two direct feeds from the dish. You could most likely prewire from a likely dish location to where you want the box and the Sky guys wouldn't bat an eyelid so long as the cable was up to the job.

Virgin (V+/TiVo) works a little differently. Essentially it's an internet connection over coax cable. A single cable delivers the data feed so that the box can record one channel while watching another, which is what Sky+/Sky+HD does. TiVo can record more than one channel at once. It has this "predictive recording" thing where it takes your viewing habits and makes recording of similar types of programmes.

When it comes to a Virgin install there's quite a bit of debate about what cable is used. I'll come back to that in a minute. There's also mention of the installer adjusting the signal level to take account of the load down the street and in your home. It's definitely true that the signal has a tolerance range so just DIY splitting and extending will probably cause some signal loss problems. The other thing is that because the signal is data in nature then I personally would avoid sending through a house distribution system. Unless someone here can point to info to say it would be fine, my guess is that it wouldn't mix happily with Freeview/DAB/FM signals in a typical house distribution system.

The cable Virgin use for their installs is a triple shielded coax called Webro HD100. The spec is very close to Webro WF100 - a good quality satellite grade coax - but that cable has only double shielding.


Cutting to the chase, all of the whole house TV installs I have done have been based on one or two Sky boxes plus Freeview. That tends to be a solution that most find works well.

The lowest cost solution to install is a single Sky box (usually in the living room) which is also connected to the roof aerial. The RF2 output from the Sky box feeds back to an aerial distribution amplifier. Each feed then goes off to the various rooms in the house. At each TV location there's a Sky Magic Eye. This lets you take a Sky remote control and change Sky channel and do all the play/record/live pause activities just like you're sitting in front of the box in the living room.

There are some caveats.
* The distributed signal is RF, so it's not as clear as watching via a HDMI connection on the main TV. That also means you don't get the full benefits of Sky's HD channels on the other TVs.
* Sky can only show one thing at once. So all the TVs have a window on what is being watched on the Sky box. IOW you can't watch Sky Sports in one room and Sky Movies somewhere else at the same time. Nor can one person watch a live channel while someone else watches a recording. If you want that you need multiple Sky boxes, so Sky Multi-room is your answer.
* Your other TVs must have a TV tuner capable of receiving the older style analogue channels.
* You have to work out as a family who has control of the Sky box and when. That's easy to do if you have one remote assigned for the other rooms. Whoever has that has control. The rest of the house then watches either the same thing off Sky, or something different from Freeview, or something from a locally connected Blu-ray player or games console or streaming box.

You can do something similar with Virgin but it is more complex. The Virgin TiVo box doesn't have an aerial out for a start, nor does it support the Magic Eye idea that makes a Sky box so easy and inexpensive to control remotely. There are ways round these limitations. But is does mean more boxes, more complication and a bit more cost.

There are then ways to build on top of this basic framework. Additional Sky or Virgin boxes can be added so two (or more) channels can be watched as well as Freeview. It's possible to distribute HD quality via HDMI cabling or network cable with Baluns. I'd also strongly consider wiring network points for each TV. Streaming is becoming very much a standard feature. Smart TVs make it easy to use catch-up services such as BBC iPlayer/ITV player/4oD/Demand 5. They'll also play content off a connected PC or NAS drive.

There's probably more info here than you were prepared for. Have a read over, do a little Googling, then perhaps come back if you have further questions. :)
 
Thanks for your reply. It seems to be getting more difficult for me lol.

So if i was do do as you have said, what do i need to bring down the wall cable wise, and what sort of faceplates can i get away with?

I was thinking something like this...

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screened+Sky+/p13270

and this next to it...

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Electrical/White Wiring Accessories/TV Socket/d190/sd2633/p79825

So the sky guy can bring the cables from the dish down to the double f sockets, and i can bring a coax from the roof aerial to the single aerial socket..?

Cheers
 
what sort of faceplates can I get away with?
That implies that you're looking for the cheapest solution and you'll put up with inferior products.

Firstly, I'd avoid anything that mentions "isolated" or fails to mention "screened". Isolation is needed only when the aerial is connected directly to the socket. Otherwise, it'll cause problems if you ever decide to expand the system to incorporate Sky with "magic eyes" or if you use a masthead amplifier (the power won't get to it).

Secondly, if you buy from a DIY store instead of a satellite/TV specialist, don't expect to get any technical support whatsoever. (This is why I buy audio equipment from companies such as Richer Sounds and not Argos, Dixons, Currys, etc.) It's worth paying a little extra for support and - because a specialist tends to keep more stock of the good stuff - or can offer a complete kit - it can often work out cheaper than buying bits from various DIY stores.
 
One question you haven't answered - but then no-one has asked it. Will you be in a position to alter the cabling at a later date ?

For example, if you install a decent size conduit (such as a large white oval and it goes into the box rather than stopping short with a dogleg needed to get through the knockout in the box) and the other end is in the attic or under easily lifted floorboard, then it's relatively easy if you change your mind or something crops up you hadn't anticipated.

On the other hand, if that's not possible so pulling cables will be difficult or impossible without surface runes or hacking holes, then you need to think ahead flexibly.

If you need flexibility, then pull in three coaxes, at least one of which is to Virgin's spec. This will cover you for pretty well any combination of terrestrial, satellite, and/or cable. Add in at least 3off Cat5e or Cat6 "data" cables. These can be used for phone, ethernet, HDMI (with converters), or a variety of other stuff.

For sockets, consider euromodules. These are standardised so you can buy the combination of module inserts you need, while buying the faceplate to match your other accessories - eg if using MK Logic sockets and switches, use MK Logic Euro-module faceplates.

Most data and coax sockets are half a module wide - a full module is 50mm wide, so a half module is 25mm. With care, you can fit two off, bulkhead adapters in a half module blanking plate to get 2 off F connector and 3 off data connector into a double face plate - but you need a very deep backbox to take the back of the coupler, the F plug, and enough room to bend the coax without kinking.

If you need to multiplex signals then you can use external modules rather than diplex/truplex faceplates. It means a few more connections and bits of cable, but can all be hidden behind the TV if you do it neatly.

But remember, much of the cost of cabling is in installing it. The incremental cost of adding extra cable at install time is usually very low - the cost of adding it later is usually "much higher".
 

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