Architects fees

[Guy7469]

Hi
Just thought I would run this by you all and see what you thought.
I drew some plans myself and got them passed. I got a bit stuck on the building control side with my specifications so I thought I would employ an architect to see what he would come up with design wise and specs.
I aggreed to his estimate of £600 to £750 + vat to design a side extension to match other areas that had already been built. The tasks that he states he was going to provide were the site survey, sketches, full drawings and specs for building control. I thought that the estimate would cover all this but I now have an invoice for £900 inc vat for just the survey and drawings. Is this what normally happens and is that the going rate. I don't know what I will be charged for the rest if the plans are passed. All he has done is copy my drawings and added the changed design.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Seanb]

Hi,

Looking at the information you have given, it appears that you accepted an 'Estimate' which is exactly that, its an estimate of the work involved and what it will cost. It could be that the architect has encountered some extra work, which has added to the price.

It may be worth asking the Architect why the price has gone up from what was originally discussed and see if the increase is justified.

Hope this helps

Sean

 

[Seanb]

Just noticed this,

The estimate was £600 to £750 +vat

£750 + vat is £881.25

Its possible that the Architect has gone on the high side of the estimate and then rounded the total up by £20 (ish) to get to the £900 inc vat you have been invoiced.

You can also ask for a full breakdown of the invoice.

Sean

 

[Richard C]

Firstly you don’t need an Architect for an extension; you’ll be paying probably 2 or 3 x the hourly rate of a decent technician & if your Architect works for a firm, it’s probably the techy that’s doing the work anyway! You’ve already done the difficult bit in getting the plans together & passed so if he’s just copied your drawings, I think you’ve already answered part of your own question! I did my own drawings for a large extension & the specs. for BC approval; I had to go through a learning curve but if you’ve done it once, most of the stuff is standard blurb (except calculations of course) so in most cases for an Architect, it’s just an MS Word (or whatever) cut & paste job with the names changed to protect the innocent!

If he had been in from the start & had to get PP etc., it maybe a fair price but it sounds way over the top to me. A friend of mine is a property developer who specialises in bungalows & he only pays £1,200 - £1,500 per 4 bed properties & that includes the drawings, PP, BC spec & liaison. I would seriously question where he’s spent your money but the moral is never accept an estimate, only go for firm quotes!

 

[Guy7469]

Hi
There are some additional expences like photocopying that were added.
I just think that even though it might be an estimate, he is estimating the overall charges for the whole job as £600- £750 +vat so to charge me that for just the drawings which my five year old could do, is plain rediculous. There haven't been any problems or charges on my part or his that has warrented the extra time. He says that he has used 15 hours to process it which is crazy if you see what he has done.

 

[Guy7469]

Richard

I got stuck on the spec side of it, the wife was pushing me to get someone to sort them out. He was the only person I could find locally to do them. If I carry on to spec stage it could be twice the estimate, that is just a licence to print money!

Cheers
Guy

 

[^woody^]

Is he a proper Architect (RIBA) or are you just refering to him as one? If he is , then the fees are normal. RIBA members have to adhere to strict 'rules of engagement' and fee breakdown rules so check if he has conformed to this

However, you stated that the estimate was to do more or less all the work to get the plans through building regs, and yet he has done only part of it, and still charged you all of the estimate - which is wrong.

As a professional person, you can rely on his estimate to be pretty near the final cost. If it was going way above, then he should have informed you sooner.

If you have not agreed any stage payments, then pay him at the end when he has done all the work contracted to do, and then only a reasonable amount above his estimate

 

[Richard C]

I think you should ask your Architect (if that’s in fact what he is) for a detailed breakdown of the work he’s done & the time he’s booked to it. Say you’re not happy with what he’s done for the charges he’s levied & you wish to see where your money has gone; if he’s trying to pull a fast one, this will certainly make him sit up & think again!

For a way forward, are you aware there are 2 ways you can tackle BC;

A Full Plans application, which is what you seem to be attempting to achieve. This involves detailed plans & other information referring to all materials, construction details & calculations. BC then look at this lot & either approve or reject you application within 5 weeks. This is the usual route for new properties & large extensions where major construction or alteration work is required.

The other route is the Building Notice Procedure which is more suited to smaller projects & simple extension work. Even though I had completed all of my own detail drawings & specs, this is in fact the route I eventually chose to follow. It does not involve the passing or rejection of full plans & specs. but you must still comply with BC regs. It’s quicker to start, you just inform BC by means of a Building Notice & you can start after 2 days. There are some restrictions as to when you can follow this route & you must advise BC at various stages of the work so they can come & inspect the work complies; if there is a problem, they will advise what you have to do to put it right. I’m 2/3 of the way through the work on my notice & I’ve not had any problems with the BC officer so far; you just have to stick to the regs. If your having a builder do the work, he should be able to do all of this for you as long as you tell him in advance you want him to take responsibility, they usually know all the inspectors as well so this can help.

Visit the ODPM website, there is a lot of very useful info & guidance including an very good explanatory booklet on Building Regs. You can also download all of the regs. free of charge.

 

[Guy7469]

Richard

I put in a full application for the whole plan. I have built one section already with no problems. The other section is just a bit more complicated with the roof design and how it attaches to the existing. This is why I went with an architect. We originally had approval for a conservatory but BC said it wouldn't conform because there wasn't enough glass in the sides.
So we are now changing the design and raising the roof to accomodate a mezzanine floor in the roof space. The ideas for this were mine and all they have drawn is those and deleted that section on my drawings. I really need him for the specs, so the bill for the drawings came as a shock. I bet that for every line he has drawn it has cost be at leaast £20!
Anyway I have sent him an email last night requesting what the invoice is for. I said that I assume that now the bill has reached the top of the estimate, I am now paying up front for the work not done yet.
You can't estimate for a job and then not finish it but still want the full amount. If I estimate for a job and quote two figures I wouldn't dream of going beyond them without informing the customer.

 

[Guy7469]

Been on to trading standards today and was told to quote the goods and services act 1982.
This specifies that work must be done with care and skill.

I don't think that he qualifies for that as he can't properly cut and paste his drawing onto my existing plans.You can see lines on the paper where they have been stuck on then photocopied.

Reasonable time scales for the work.

He hasn't stuck to the original letter that stated the plans and all the specs would be ready for mid september. I had to chase him up.

Reasonable price for the work.

Looking at what might be reasonable, I think I am being charged double of the norm.

Still waiting for a reply to my email

 

[diyisfree]

When we built our extension the archietect charged me £600.00 but that was everything including him submitting the plans for planning and regs.

The £600.00 also included the fees for the local council for the planning and the regs.

He also had to visit our build on 3 occasions because of slight problems with his design. He DID NOT charge for the visits and simply re drew the plans and sent then through. But he used CAD not hand drawn so changes were made while we were on the phone then e mailed through so i could check.


He was very helpful and only too willing to come and talk through problems we were having. Well worth the money.

But thats up in sunny lancashire were we still wear flat caps and clogs.

 

[Richard C]

When we built our extension the archietect charged me £600.00 but that was everything including him submitting the plans for planning and regs.

The £600.00 also included the fees for the local council for the planning and the regs.

He also had to visit our build on 3 occasions because of slight problems with his design. He DID NOT charge for the visits and simply re drew the plans and sent then through. But he used CAD not hand drawn so changes were made while we were on the phone then e mailed through so i could check.

That looks more like it; Guy, as I said in my original reply my developer friend pays 1,200 - £1,500 for each scratch build new 4 bed property he builds, all in, & the guy he uses is a proper Architect with staff!

 

[Guy7469]

It gets worse when I think about it!

The architect is just handing over the plans for me to submit and pay the fees which are not included in the price.

I bet he drives a Porsche, the b#####d!

I'm not a happy bunny.

 

[jono_h]

I employed an architect to do exactly the same - provide a set of drawings for my builders to work off as I didn't think I could provide the technical detail necessary.
I was quoted the same original price as you, and ended up paying the same final price.
The extra in my case was that I asked him to rework some of the specification to make sure we got what we wanted, and there were a couple of extra structural calcs for the same reason.

In short the price sounds OK, but if you're not happy go and have a chat with the bloke.

 

[Guy7469]

The trouble is that I haven't got any tech drawings or specs yet, but he still wants all the money for just the drawings for planning applications.