Basic cellar conversion which isn’t a habitable room.

[mediabuild]

Hello

Ive been asked to do a basic cellar conversion to be used only as a basic utility room for a washing machine, dryer, and a bit of storage. The owner would like a few different options but wants to keep the budget to a minimum because they are not having it converted propertly.

There is one cellar room roughly 4m x 4m, a smaller room which is roughly 1.2m x 4m, and the stairway going down into the cellar.

There isn’t any visible water or physically damp/wet walls to the touch, but its not a dry cellar and there is the typical salts and bubbling paint along the walls.

The floor in the main 4x4 room slopes quite a lot from all 4 corners into the centre of the room where there is an open drain. The floor looks to just be bricks on end placed onto clay/soil with limited mortar between them. Without further inspection I don’t know if the drain works, if the drain is damaged or how the floor is constructed.

Here are the issues/decisions that need to be made.


1. The costs need to be kept to a minimum (within reason).
2. There is the typical damp mouldy smell in the cellar, and it can sometimes be smelt in the entrance hall above the cellar upstairs.
3. The room is only to be used for sort of a basic utility room, not a habitable room.
4. What to do with the floor
5. What to do with the drain
6. What to do with the walls

Lets start with the floor. Can I have some suggestions? There is just about enough head height as it is and so I cant really increase the floor height that much more. The cost of excavating the floor out, moving/repairing the drain, installing a sump pump with perimeter drains and installing a new slab is going to be too much for what is wanted but how far do you go?
If you go to the effort of excavating the minimum to install a new level slab should you go the full way and do as above?
How far do you go with the floor for the most basic conversion?
This is a hard decision because the floor is quite badly unlevel, its not even in a reasonable condition, and you cant really put anything over it as it is. Something does have to be done with the floor it cant stay as it is. Any ideas on the cheapest most cost effective way of making the floor useable?


Walls: A habitable room would need cavity drain membrane going into the perimeter drains going into the sump pump but that’s not what we are after. How far do you go with this then?
The owner would ideally like plasterboard walls however will accept other options.
Im thinking that the expense of cavity drain membrane is a bit pointless unless the room and floor is done properly.
If they do insist on plasterboard walls then they will either have to be installed onto battens, or the walls covered with a dmp then battens and then plasterboard.
Id like a few ideas or a bit of advice here with what other would suggest.
The two options I can think of are to either use some sort of pvc wall cladding, or if they want plasterboard then possibly dmp on the walls with battens fixed over the dpm and then plasterboard ontop but I don’t think this is a long term solution and might eventually suffer from damp.


Window: At the front there is a large air vent which used to be part of the old coal shoot or what ever was there. The owners said they wanted this opening up slightly and a window installing which can be done fairly easily however this would remove the ventilation to the cellar. I would think some extra ventilation would need installing, but whats the best thing to do if the customer doesn’t want the draft?

Heating: The owner asked about having a radiator installed but I said it wasn’t a good idea unless it was being converted properly.

Smell: Im not sure on this one. Unless a complete conversion is done then I doubt the smell will go. Sorting out the floor and walls might help a little but it wont remove the smell.

Ceiling. The old lat and plaster ceiling will be removed and a new plasterboard ceiling installed.

This is sort of a trade off between making it useable and not spending too much, or they may aswell spend a bit extra and get it done properly.

 

[pinenot]

Tell us something, is this your business?

 

[noseall]

Bonkers idea.

Cellars are good for what cellars do and trying to make then do something else for what they are not fit, will either cost trillions of dollars or the space will become a stained, mouldy, smelly place that will be a bind to use.

Some people hate lugging washing down one flight of stairs let alone two.

Newly washed clothes will not like being kept for any length of time in the cellar.

Pumping the water out of the washing machine drain will be a 'mare.

I think someone has been watching too much US tv where they have 'basements'.

 

[stuart45]

Bonkers idea.

Cellars are good for what cellars do .

Which is storing beer and wine.

 

[^woody^]

Bonkers idea.

Cellars are good for what cellars do .

Which is storing beer and wine.

Or the ugly deformed sibling from an incestuous liaison

 

[stuart45]

How did you know what's in my cellar woody? I never told anyone.

 

[^woody^]

It's all over Twitter

 

[limerockconstruction]

I would have thought doing a half arsed job will leave you with a crap little room....weather they are using it for just laundry or not. If you are pricing this job up for a customer make sure they are going to be happy with a half baked cake (even though they say they are, they probably won't be in the end).

 

[mediabuild]

i do agree with noseall.

that is exactly the problem.
anything done will be a half ar*ed job or a "half baked cake".
the owner says they understand this and just want is useable and something done with it.
so with that in mind thats why i thought i would put up a post for some extra opinions.

They were hoping to use the open drain in the centre of the floor for the washing machine, however this would need further inspection. If this is actually useable then it will give an option to draining the washing machine, however if not then it causes more problems.
Any recommendations?

It looks like the only real option for the walls is some sort of pvc cladding.
Floor is still an issue, and draining the washing machine.

If i dont do this for them, they will just get somebody else to do it and possibly get ripped off.

 

[TheVictorian]

You could use a saniflow to pump the waste water up to the nearest drain at a higher level, but again this is a last resort really.

If you plasterboard the ceiling then it will fall to bits and go mouldy, I'd use ply if i had to but would try to avoid that as well. My cellar has celotex stuck betweenthe rafters and it looks quite neat as well as serving a purpose.

 

[mediabuild]

yes i was toying with the idea of insulation in the ceiling.
neatly fitted rigid boards would look ok, keep the dust/muck down a little, and actually serve a purpose of insulating the rooms above.
it could either be left like that, or overboarded with pvc cladding.
thats the ceiling sorted as long as they are willing to pay for the celotex/xtratherm.......

new internal fire door from kitchen to cellar.

check to see if the drain in the middle of the floor is an actual gully connected to the drains and hope its not just a soak away. if it is a soak away then it would have to have a saniflow installed.

walls - either leave them alone or clad in pvc panels

vents - i need to find something to replace the air bricks that will open and shut

window - they do want a window even if its a small one.

floor - still undecided.

 

[Deluks]

Floor, self levelling compound and vinyl on top. Or tile it (cheap tiles obviously). Or treat it like an outdoor space and put some 'nice' looking slabs down.

Bin the heating idea, window yes but a couple of extra vents elsewhere too. I think eliminating airflow without insulation/damproofing/heating as well, is asking for trouble. They should think if it as a covered outside space they will be able to do the washing, store stuff etc without getting wet/muddy.

Will they be using a tumble dryer? If so, make sure it extracts to the outside, if not, then consider a standalone Electric heated airer, which could be used by the window with a fanlight left open. (taking security considerations into account)

 

[Angel1DIY]

Bonkers idea.

Cellars are good for what cellars do .

Which is storing beer and wine.

Or the ugly deformed sibling from an incestuous liaison

 

[Angel1DIY]

Hi there,

Hello

Ive been asked to do a basic cellar conversion to be used only as a basic utility room for a washing machine, dryer, and a bit of storage. The owner would like a few different options but wants to keep the budget to a minimum because they are not having it converted propertly.

There is one cellar room roughly 4m x 4m, a smaller room which is roughly 1.2m x 4m, and the stairway going down into the cellar.

There isn’t any visible water or physically damp/wet walls to the touch, but its not a dry cellar and there is the typical salts and bubbling paint along the walls.

The floor in the main 4x4 room slopes quite a lot from all 4 corners into the centre of the room where there is an open drain. The floor looks to just be bricks on end placed onto clay/soil with limited mortar between them. Without further inspection I don’t know if the drain works, if the drain is damaged or how the floor is constructed.

Here are the issues/decisions that need to be made.


1. The costs need to be kept to a minimum (within reason).
2. There is the typical damp mouldy smell in the cellar, and it can sometimes be smelt in the entrance hall above the cellar upstairs.
3. The room is only to be used for sort of a basic utility room, not a habitable room.
4. What to do with the floor
5. What to do with the drain
6. What to do with the walls

Lets start with the floor. Can I have some suggestions? There is just about enough head height as it is and so I cant really increase the floor height that much more. The cost of excavating the floor out, moving/repairing the drain, installing a sump pump with perimeter drains and installing a new slab is going to be too much for what is wanted but how far do you go?
If you go to the effort of excavating the minimum to install a new level slab should you go the full way and do as above?
How far do you go with the floor for the most basic conversion?
This is a hard decision because the floor is quite badly unlevel, its not even in a reasonable condition, and you cant really put anything over it as it is. Something does have to be done with the floor it cant stay as it is. Any ideas on the cheapest most cost effective way of making the floor useable?


Walls: A habitable room would need cavity drain membrane going into the perimeter drains going into the sump pump but that’s not what we are after. How far do you go with this then?
The owner would ideally like plasterboard walls however will accept other options.
Im thinking that the expense of cavity drain membrane is a bit pointless unless the room and floor is done properly.
If they do insist on plasterboard walls then they will either have to be installed onto battens, or the walls covered with a dmp then battens and then plasterboard.
Id like a few ideas or a bit of advice here with what other would suggest.
The two options I can think of are to either use some sort of pvc wall cladding, or if they want plasterboard then possibly dmp on the walls with battens fixed over the dpm and then plasterboard ontop but I don’t think this is a long term solution and might eventually suffer from damp.


Window: At the front there is a large air vent which used to be part of the old coal shoot or what ever was there. The owners said they wanted this opening up slightly and a window installing which can be done fairly easily however this would remove the ventilation to the cellar. I would think some extra ventilation would need installing, but whats the best thing to do if the customer doesn’t want the draft?

Heating: The owner asked about having a radiator installed but I said it wasn’t a good idea unless it was being converted properly.

Smell: Im not sure on this one. Unless a complete conversion is done then I doubt the smell will go. Sorting out the floor and walls might help a little but it wont remove the smell.

Ceiling. The old lat and plaster ceiling will be removed and a new plasterboard ceiling installed.

This is sort of a trade off between making it useable and not spending too much, or they may aswell spend a bit extra and get it done properly.

Hi there, I am doing exactly the same thing to my cellar. As much as people say don't do anything to the walls, I painted one of my rooms last year, and just doing the others now, I painted the walls with johnstones cellar paint, it's a white day proof paint and took away so much of the smell, I got a great brush by Harris for masonry paint and it ends up with a chalky Finnish.
I am the same I don't want to spend a fortune, but my kitchen is not big enough to have the washing machine up there and tumble dryer.

A year and a half ago a plumber, put my washing machine down there, was a nice surprise when I got home, he put a spare big plastic dustbin same size as the bin men take away, and put a pump inside of it and then drilled a hole half way up in the wall and a pipe going out of it into the drain outside.
It does get a bit smelly if I have used it for a few days, it works fine, and has served me well. But I want to make it look a bit nicer , more like a proper utility room , and had thought of building a plinth to raise the washing machine up and hopefully it will pump directly out in to the drain from the washing machine it's self, with a bit larger hole in the wall, it manages to pump upwards perfectly into the big bin, and would be going half that height if I build a plinth, though not quite sure the best way to build the plinth yet, maybe I should post that question !
On my floor, it was already cover 3/4s with slabs (patio squares) which work fine on top of loose sand, would like to get a few more, my cellar floor does get a bit damp when water levels rise with the heavy rain. But doesn't get wet, the slabs look damp in just a small area but then dry out fine.
I too have a slatted ceiling on in one of the rooms but thought I would leave that alone as I think that those original slatted ceilings were probably the best resort. But on the other ceiling, I may put up some insulation boards, as that is just bare the underneath bare wood to the floor above that was replaced.
As for the tumble dryer, I have a condenser tumble dryer and have no problem with that, as I just empty the water collector when full and have had no problems with that.
My only problem is I am a girl and it's a fairly big job on your own! Mainly for the extra slabs and laying them, which I am not looking forward to that task! If at all I make it all. It is like a bare brick floor, which I thought would have looked really nice just cleaned and varnished, but it would take so cleaning after all of its use as a cellar for all those years, so the slabs are a much easier option if you have not problem carrying them !
I actually went to a reclamation yard, you find some great things and ideas there got some huge grey tums, going to put all my gardening gear in them so they are off the floor and neat and tidy! and got spare tiles for my roof, and priced slabs for the cellar really large ones were on £4 and wicks have new small ones for £2.35 free delivery I think over £50s.
Hope some of this has helped, the wall paint has worked for me, it makes it look clean and very utility! And cheap. I painted my cellar steps with a grey floorpaint and they look great and very contempory.

 

[f0rmula]

Wow. Shocked at the negativity! Sounds like I had exactly the same situation. Dry-ish cellar, now a utility/laundry/storage for beer/wine and tools etc. I spent about £1000 on materials.

Bonkers idea.

Cellars are good for what cellars do and trying to make then do something else for what they are not fit, will either cost trillions of dollars or the space will become a stained, mouldy, smelly place that will be a bind to use.

I can't really comment on most of that except to say that we're totally happy with our extra space. £1000 is not even one trillion, let alone multiple trillions. Walls plasterboarded with MR, with sufficient ventilation, etc.

Some people hate lugging washing down one flight of stairs let alone two.

Not this one, probably, if this is what she's asking for. My missus and I are also happy with the dishwasher it's allowed us to put in the kitchen. I guess people are different...

Newly washed clothes will not like being kept for any length of time in the cellar.

No, but that's not the end of the world. Washing machine -> tumble drier -> back upstairs.

Pumping the water out of the washing machine drain will be a 'mare.

I bought a Sanivite for £300. It's made for exactly this purpose. If having to spend £300 on a sanivite to gain yourself a utility room is your idea of a nightmare, heaven help you.

I think someone has been watching too much US tv where they have 'basements'.

How condescending. There's obviously a difference between a dry basement and a wet cellar, which the dude already appreciates. Maybe try and help him answer his questions?