boiler flue - need to get it removed

[doc79]

Hi all,

Hoping you guys can give me some advice as I am not sure where else to go.

The house I live in is circa 1820 Victorian semi-detached. Was originally one building, but then split into 3 and sold to different owners, we have the same numbered address: 10, 10a & 10b

I live at 10a and 10b has been empty for a number of years, original owner died.

We are building an extension now and the boundary wall between us and 10b they have a boiler flue coming out directly through the wall. This wall is where we will be putting up our internal walls for the extension. As there is no owner in the property I cannot tell anyone to remove it, nor can I gain access to the property to make it safe. Can't build around it or knock it through.

Have contacted every department I can think of in the council, local MP, police, fire, council tax, no-one can give me the current owner or get me access to the property.

So now we have a structure built but cannot put up the wall until this flue is removed.

Any ideas what I can do?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Sounds like you should have planned better.

Now you have had the work done to a point and are stuffed.

If a new owner moved in and your structure makes their boiler unsafe you will be footing a hefty bill.

You can't touch the flue now as it will be criminal damage.

 

[Agile]

Is this flue discharging over YOUR property?

In that case they cannot continue.

You should write a letter to the Executors of the owner.

Someone must be taking post and dealing with bills etc.

Next if no reply you could give them 14 days notice that you will be removing it to enable your work to proceed.

Not sure about Scotland but the Party Wall Act may have solutions for you but as its relatively new there is not much case history! An average high street solicitor knows little about the details of the Act.

Tony

 

[Razor900]

Is this flue discharging over YOUR property?

In that case they cannot continue.

You should write a letter to the Executors of the owner.

Someone must be taking post and dealing with bills etc.

Next if no reply you could give them 14 days notice that you will be removing it to enable your work to proceed.

Not sure about Scotland but the Party Wall Act may have solutions for you but as its relatively new there is not much case history! An average high street solicitor knows little about the details of the Act.

Tony

I would suspect that's wrong Tony. If the house is a conversion there may well be provisions in place for the flue to stay where it is. I'd agree with Dan it should've been sorted earlier

 

[FiremanT]

Is this flue discharging over YOUR property?

In that case they cannot continue.

You should write a letter to the Executors of the owner.

Someone must be taking post and dealing with bills etc.

Next if no reply you could give them 14 days notice that you will be removing it to enable your work to proceed.

Not sure about Scotland but the Party Wall Act may have solutions for you but as its relatively new there is not much case history! An average high street solicitor knows little about the details of the Act.

Tony

I would suspect that's wrong Tony. If the house is a conversion there may well be provisions in place for the flue to stay where it is. I'd agree with Dan it should've been sorted earlier

Agreed. I would say it depends upon when the flue was installed. The building regs changed, I would say, about 2002. Whatever the date was, prior to that, it was perfectly legal. The onus was on a later developer NOT to make an existing installation contravene the gas regs.

 

[Agile]

Yes, of course if there is any legal right for the flue to be there then that over rides everything else.

However, I virtually never see anything about pipes and flues in the leases/conveyances.

At all times there is the complication that no one should do anything which will make a gas installation dangerous. Hence my suggestion of writing asking the Executor to have it removed.

To make things worse Scottish law can be a little different from English law.

 

[doc79]

Sounds like you should have planned better.

When it was being planned the architect told us that it would be removed and that it was an easy enough task, it's only when we chased up the owner that it turned into such a difficult thing. He died and left no Executor of the estate.

Is this flue discharging over YOUR property?

Yes, directly into our garden, about 4 foot off ground level.

Agreed. I would say it depends upon when the flue was installed. The building regs changed, I would say, about 2002. Whatever the date was, prior to that, it was perfectly legal. The onus was on a later developer NOT to make an existing installation contravene the gas regs.

We moved in around that time and it was already there. However, all the tradesmen have told us that it is no longer aloowed to discharge into our property. Every deparment in the council agrees that it should not be there but none are willing to do anything about it.

10b is empty and has no one living in it, it's in quite a state of disrepair, but the council are saying they have no power to enter the building until it becomes dangerous. I imagine that we could get it removed had we anyone to contact, but the fact that there is non Executor, we cannot do anything. We have tried the legal route but have come to a dead end there as well.

 

[Boilerman2]

Shyte creek with no paddle comes to mind!!

 

[FiremanT]

Agreed. I would say it depends upon when the flue was installed. The building regs changed, I would say, about 2002. Whatever the date was, prior to that, it was perfectly legal. The onus was on a later developer NOT to make an existing installation contravene the gas regs.

We moved in around that time and it was already there. However, all the tradesmen have told us that it is no longer aloowed to discharge into our property. Every deparment in the council agrees that it should not be there but none are willing to do anything about it.

It isn't retrospective. If it was legal then, it is legal now - in fact you probably have to allow them access over your land to maintain it.

 

[Agile]

I am not aware of any law ( in England ) which allows anyone to discharge POCs across land not in their ownership.

Worse is that it can be defined as a statutory nuisance!

I don't see the house is likely to be lived in again without serious renovation.

So if I was adjacent to it I would remove flue, cement/brick up the opening and go ahead with the development.

If someone dies intestate with no close relatives then the government appoints a State Executor. Don't know about Scotland though.

 

[Agile]

If there are no surviving relatives

If there are no surviving relatives who can inherit under the rules of intestacy, the estate passes to the Crown. This is known as bona vacantia. The Treasury Solicitor is then responsible for dealing with the estate. The Crown can make grants from the estate but does not have to agree to them.

If you are not a surviving relative, but you believe you have a good reason to apply for a grant, you will need legal advice.

For more information about bona vacantia go to the GOV.UK website at www.gov.uk.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I hardly think bricking up someone else's flue without permission is a wise or safe course of action.

 

[RickMoore]

So if I was adjacent to it I would remove flue, cement/brick up the opening and go ahead with the development.

.

Really ?

 

[Agile]

The property has been empty for several years.

The owner has dies.

Its in a semi derelict condition.

Likely to remain in that state for several years.

If ever reoccupied will need a new boiler anyway.

Ok there is a VERY small risk but the alternative is not to complete the development. That's what I would do!

 

[RickMoore]

Im not sure I wouldn't do the same I the ops circumstances, though I would have been more thorough in my planning in the first place. However im not sure it's at all wise to actually advise someone to go and do it, besides where are you going to find an rgi that's prepared to stick their balls on the chopping block and actually do it ?