BT Star wiring issues and problems with new ISP

[kbdiy]

Just wondering who exactly you spoke to at BT?

Ok so here's another possible approach. Report a fault -" noise on the line, intermittent call cut off". Again, their usual warning " if it's found that your equipment is causing the fault we will charge etc etc ..."

Make sure that you don't have any equipment connected except 1 decent phone and your broadband kit. That at least ought to get you an engineer to the door. Keep up with the noise story while he tests and mention the broadband problem as well. Don't go into the background or rant at him. Treat him to tea and biccies. If you do it right he'll change the NTE as a precaution and might even tidy the wiring while he's at it.

Threatening legal action will do you absolutely no good whatsoever against the might of BT. You need to play the game and be persistent but nice.

 

[smirge]

Thanks for your post. I spoke to BT Technical department who, as always, were very considered and polite in their response; they just wanted to clarify that never, historically, has a customer in my situation NOT had to pay. Yep, to update BT's infrastructure. They did suggest I call billing if I want but the result will be the same.

Problem is, I simply don't have the time or fight in me to pursue this for a further four weeks on top of the four it's already gone on; I estimate it's cost me between £300-400 so far in terms of not being able to use my internet in the evenings.

Financially speaking, if it's a matter of paying £100 to have it sorted now or losing another £400 over another month before BT (possibly) eventually agree to pick up the fee, then it's a no brainer. I doubt the compensation I'll receive for this situation will come to much/anything either

I've also sent them test results indicating I have extremely low noise on the line, so the line of argument you've suggested probably wouldn't work anyway?

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 00:25:49
Downstream: 20.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.113 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 3.6 dB / 6.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 14.5 dB / 7.5 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 10.2 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 2876 / 102
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 149340 / 142
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 668 / 32

I loathe the day I decided to consider BT as an option.

 

[kbdiy]

Noise = voice - cracking, call cut off, which could easily be down to a dodgy NTE, which is exactly what you want changed (but don't tell them that)

 

[smirge]

Ok cool, thanks. I'll look into that. Might have to stagger it a bit, rather than immediately set about plan B a day after telling them to shove plan A where the sun doesn't shine, lol.

 

[bernardgreen]

They have categorically insisted that every single customer who has required a visit to update star wiring has been charged,

That will be because the "star" wiring is internal and not part of BT's ( OpenReach's ) network which ends at the NTE 5.

If you ask BT to improve / repair their cable up to and including the NTE 5 ( replacing the NTE 5 if necessary ) then the chances are the technician will report it as non-chargable work.

By quoting a set of test results to them you may have wrecked your chances of a free repair / upgrade.

 

[smirge]

They have categorically insisted that every single customer who has required a visit to update star wiring has been charged,

That will be because the "star" wiring is internal and not part of BT's ( OpenReach's ) network which ends at the NTE 5.

If you ask BT to improve / repair their cable up to and including the NTE 5 ( replacing the NTE 5 if necessary ) then the chances are the technician will report it as non-chargable work.

By quoting a set of test results to them you may have wrecked your chances of a free repair / upgrade.

Oh, right - I see - from the information I've received thus far, I have received substantial conflicting information over whether the star wiring is in fact BT's responsibility or not.

So excuse my ignorance but according to the attached album in my first post, where does BT's involvement presently terminate? At the tiny BT junction box in the porch? And if so, who takes responsibility for the BT socket in my lounge which it is cabled to?

Regarding the results - given I've spent at least 7 hours on the phone to BT technical support conducting live performance tests by now, I'm pretty sure they already have a clear idea of the facts and figures that accompany my line's performance!

 

[bernardgreen]

where does BT's involvement presently terminate? At the tiny BT junction box in the porch? And if so, who takes responsibility for the BT socket in my lounge which it is cabled to?

That depends on who fitted that NTE 5. I doubt BT fitted it.

I would think that many years ago the GPO ( before BT ) installed two fixed wired telephones ( NOT plug and socket ) when the phone line was first installed to your house. They owned all the wiring and telephones.

Then the monopoly was ended and pluggable phones required BT to provide sockets. This resulted in confusion with DIY hard wired extension sockets being added, This lead to faults in DIY wiring affecting the line with no simple way to isolate the line from the DIY wiring for line testing purposes.

The confusion over who owned what resulted in BT deciding to install only one socket to which other customer owned wiring could be connected by a plug and NOT by a hard wired connection direct to the incoming line

That single socket is in the back plate socket of the NTE 5. The front part plugs into it and this plug connection provides the simple easy way to isolate the line from the internal wiring for testing purposes.

 

[TonyW2]

You purchased the house in its present condition and acquired the dubious wiring along with any liabilities for it from your predecessor. If you pursue any legal argument, the balance of probability favours BT in that the connection box under the fascia and the bad NT5 wiring is more likely to have been done by a DIYer than BT. Hence you must bear the cost of rectification.
Bodgitt has explained what needs to be done. It would be easy to remove the obsolete extension cable from the junction box and reconnect the NT5 properly with two connect ions on the rear part. The front plate can then be plugged back in and you have the front socket ready for your filter.
Do that and see how the situation develops. If it does not improve matters then you are no worse off.

 

[smirge]

Thank you both.

I've had a look inside the junction box. What I've noticed is that actually, the spare socket is already disconnected (see the two new pictures in my album). Presently the master socket connects into the A&B in the junction box, then the blue BT wires connect that to my NTE5 in the lounge.

//www.diynot.com/network/smirge/albums/16938

I realise the only remaining job is now to rewire the NTE5 so the A&B are connected to the backplate, not the front, so the test socket works - yes? If I do this then what would BT's stance be if/when they send an engineer?

One final question while I'm still here, then - if the spare socket has been disconnected all this time, then how could this be blamed for my poor Broadband performance?

 

[TonyW2]

Suspect BT would still be suspicious if they see that outside box----but might depend on the quality of the biccies, or their wrapping paper.
Any disturbance of a connection could affect your broadband signal and your supplier change could affect your profile, so we will never be able to know why the times coincided.

 

[smirge]

Gotcha, all clear!

 

[bernardgreen]

The incomining pair ( in the little BT92 connector ) need to go to the screw terminals as the wire is not the right size of wire for the punch down terminals. It is likely they have forced the jaws in the punch downs apart and thus the other wire connection may not be as good as it should be.

 

[smirge]

The incomining pair ( in the little BT92 connector ) need to go to the screw terminals as the wire is not the right size of wire for the punch down terminals. It is likely they have forced the jaws in the punch downs apart and thus the other wire connection may not be as good as it should be.

I've tidied up inside the junction box a bit and shortened the redundant wires. Looking at the newest photo I just uploaded to the album then, are you stating that I need to move the two wires coming in from the top into the two screws? Or the two wires running to my NTE5?

//www.diynot.com/network/smirge/albums/16938

Also, the punch down connectors you mention (these are in the bottom left, yes?)... They look ANCIENT. I am a bit concerned about yanking out the existing wires and not being able to re-establish a connection. Is this something I can resolve easily if the connection drops and I am forced to ditch the junction box altogether?

Excuse my continuing ignorance about this kind of thing; your patience is appreciated.

 

[bernardgreen]

The incoming pair are the wires coming in from the exchange

You would be best to leave them as they are because ( as you fear )disturbing the punched down connections ( the three in the white plastic ) may make ths connections un-reliable. It needs a new BT92 or the correct IDC crimp on connectors ( IDC = Insulation Displacement Connector )

 

[TonyW2]

Put the two incoming wires under seperate screws and then place the two out going wires (to the NT5) under them as well to get a good connection. You will
Not damage anything by bypassing those IDC press in connectors. The cable ,may need stripping neatly.