Building a shed with a veranda

[functor]

Hello,

I am thinking of building a wooden 16ftx10ft shed, with the roof extending across the length of it another 10ftx10ft. This will be less than 1m from the boundary.

According to planning permission, I see this:

"No verandas, balconies or raised platforms."

Is this talking about sticking a veranda on the original house, or does this literally mean you cannot ever get a shed with a veranda or raised platform without planning permission?

According to building regulations, I see this:

"If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials."

Is the floor area only the 16x10 area, which is where the foundations are, and not the 10x10 area (which will just be gravel with a roof on top of it)?

 

[tony1851]

A canopy or covered verandah or whatever you call it would add to the fire risk. They would therefore count the additional area as part of the floor area.

 

[functor]

If this additional covered area was not connected to the other shed, however, it would be considered a seperate building...?

 

[tony1851]

It would be considered as a separate building.

But a flat canopy can have the effect of pushing flames outwards from the wall of the structure, so potentially enlarging the size of the structure.

A lot of fire regs are open to interpretation, and a common-sense approach needs to be taken by the inspector. In practice and depending on your circumstances (site layout etc) you may well be OK.

 

[functor]

The fence around the building are actually brick so it shouldn't be a problem.. and there arent any other buildings around or trees. Just want to make sure that a neighbour cant use it as an argument to get it removed or something...

 

[tony1851]

Just want to make sure that a neighbour cant use it as an argument to get it removed or something...

As long as it doesn't exceed the permitted development limit for outbuildings and there are no Article 4 directions in force (unlikely), there's no chance of the council being able to get you remove it.

It may or may not contravene Building Regs and it's hard to tell from the description. But even if there was a contravention, it is almost always possible to adapt the structure to comply. Building Regs enforcement actions are very rare.

 

[functor]

But what about the "No verandas, balconies or raised platforms." on http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/ ? Can the shed have a veranda?

 

[cjard]

It's not a verandah, it's a car port for a ford fiesta..

Unless you're going the whole hog, putting decking and a railing round and a swing, couple of easy chairs.. Then it's a verandah

 

[functor]

I just want a sheltered area for garden tools, outdoor storage... and I was hoping to put railing actually so it looks pretty.. however I wont raise it more than 300mm ... For example these guys here:

https://www.quick-garden.co.uk/planning-permission

" According to the regulations, a veranda comprises of a platform raised more than 300mm from the ground. We have ensured that none of our structures in which we say come with a “veranda” are raised more than 300mm from the ground."

Basically exactly like this: http://harristimberproducts.co.uk/images/sheds1.jpg

Do these kinds of sheds need planning permission because of the dangerous verandas?

 

[big-all]

the veranda thing is more to do with overlooking your neighbours

i wonder if removable panels would satisfy the the veranda rule??
or why not have an attached area like a veranda but too low to stand up in so nothing more than open storage??
will also give better protection than a higher roof

 

[functor]

There are two points here,

1) The entrance "mini veranda"

This bit is just for the aesthetics... It just looks so much nicer having an entrance with a railing.. not sure what to do with this bit though because it is technically a veranda...

2) The storage "cover bit"

This I could make "detached" from the shed, so its not considered a veranda, the roof over this would be a different structure to the shed, but would be "touching" the shed.. or the roof of the shed would be "on top of" this structure.. something like that

According tot he technical guide...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf

"(g) it would include the construction or provision of a veranda, balcony or
raised platform

Verandas, balconies and raised platforms are not permitted development under Class E.

A raised platform is defined as any platform that has a height of more than 300 millimetres. Garden decking will therefore be permitted development under Class E subject to it not exceeding this 300mm height limit and subject to the other limits and conditions under this Class."

It defines raised platform, but not veranda.. some people intepret this to mean that verandas are fine as long as the decking does not exceed 300mm.

This is why we can't have nice things in the UK...

EDIT:
Apparently this is a dodgy subject:

http://dunsterhouse.co.uk/faq/29/do-i-need-planning-permission-for-log-cabins-and-garden-offices

"No verandas, (Note from Dunster House: We interpret1 this rule as not including what we call “Verandas” or “Deck Verandas” as the platform is less than 300mm from the ground and this seems entirely acceptable when reading about the what is allowed for decking. If in doubt check with your local planning office.) balconies or raised platforms."

1This is our interpretation of the rules and is merely our opinion, we cannot be held responsible for incorrect interpretation.

EDIT2:

In cornwall they have the following document:

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/3629675/PD-doc-v4-110427.pdf

Which says:
10 Does the proposal include the construction of a veranda, balcony or
raised platform? (more than 300mm above original ground level)

Which means the 300mm applies to verandas and balconies too.. since its after the "?". Which means verandas ARE allowed as long as the decking is not more than 300mm above ground level?

EDIT3:

I shot an email to my local planning, although last time they took 2 months to answer.. sigh...

 

[cjard]

Joining planningjungle.com would be faster and Steve would point you to a load of case law for (and possibly against) what you require. £20 for a year is well worth it

I'd be wary of drawing any inferences from a council website/pdf paraphrasing of the Town and Country Planning Act - look for something in law, appeal etc instead

Veranda seems to have no exact definition and the commonly understood interpretation prevails - an amenity feature upon which people can stand. The more inviting you make it look as a standing place, the more it becomes a veranda to the average man in the street - and the "reasonable man" test is often used by courts to ask whether something is something - would a reasonable man, looking at what you built, say it was a veranda?

Also, I don't necessarily think that it has to be more than 300mm to be a veranda - 300mm + is the definition off a "raised platform" whereas verandas are referred to as just platforms in the technical guidance (though not defined in the law)

 

[big-all]

yes it must not be higher than 300mm it must also not have a veranda 2 seperate requirements one does not negate the other
interactive house is great for this information

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/house


http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings

 

[tony1851]

£20 for a year is well worth it

he charges me £45!

 

[cjard]

Aye, but you draw buildings for a living; you're minted
I'm just a software engineer