Cleaning F+E Header tank & adding cleaner to heating sys

[DIYNotIan]

Nice one - that all makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

But presuming for a moment that I do not drain from the draincock (for risk of breaking it/breaking the washer) how does my idea of draining from the bleed valves of the radiators sound?

Would it allow me to drain enough (a full bucket as you say)?

Could it cause any problems such as air locks or anything else?

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions and worry. I just don't want to make a mess of things and turn this into a plumbing emergency!

 

[JohnD]

A bleed valve will do, but take longer.

 

[DIYNotIan]

A bleed valve will do, but take longer.

Excellent - we have a plan then!

And yes, once I have put in the F3 in the tank (or pipe if I can manage it) I'll turn the water back on and try to use the heating a lot over the week before he comes so that it circulates as much as possible.

Cheers

 

[dominoman]

You should find a drain valve somewhere else low down in the house, probably on the end of one radiator or perhaps by the boiler. That'll be easier than doing it from a bleed valve.

 

[DIYNotIan]

You should find a drain valve somewhere else low down in the house, probably on the end of one radiator or perhaps by the boiler. That'll be easier than doing it from a bleed valve.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have already actually found one on the boiler (there's a photo a few posts back). The problem is it is in poor condition and I don't have the skills or confidence to put it right or replace it with a new one should it break when I undo it. Would not want to call out an emergency plumber of Xmas either!

I did remember these three "pipes" which are behind the freezer in the utility room. I have no idea what they are! Anybody?

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• DIYNotIan
• 22 Dec 2014
• 1

But things have actually changed now. We have had to cancel the plumbing work and will look to get it down a little later now. It's due to financial reasons unfortunately.

On the plus side though, it does mean that instead of using Fernox F3 I will be able to use Sentinel X400 as suggested by JohnD. It turns out that Fernox F3 requires THREE DRAIN DOWNS to completely remove from the system, and that not removing it can cause problems. The Sentinel apparently only needs to be removed once. So - when we book the plumber - I can add the Sentinel X400 3-4 weeks before he comes. Then, on the day he comes, he will drain down just the once to

(a) Remove the Sentinel X400
(b) Clear the crap and crud , hopefully just by draining
(c) Fit the new TRV
(d) Add the inhibitor.
(e) Fit a new Drain cock (or similar)


Sounds like a good plan to me, and one that I would never have got to without the help from here. At last this is one silver lining to the bad financial news we got...

Cheers

 

[DIYNotIan]

Have you considered fitting a system filter? It will cost about £100 but on a dirty old system is very worthwhile, and you will be gratified to empty it periodically and see how much sludge it has collected. The chemical you use will loosen old sediment and there will still be some remaining even after you have drained and rinsed it a few times. The filter will slowly capture circulating particles.

I've been offered a Fernox Total TF1 compact at a good price. Is that the kind of thing you meant, and if so, is that a respected model?

How much would a plumber charge to fit one.

Remember to add inhibitor during final fill

Is Sentinel X100 a good choice? One Litre?


Cheers

 

[JohnD]

yes and yes. But do you need the Compact version?

1 litre is enough for an average sized house. Do the X400 clean first.

if you fit a filter and then add some Sentinel X900 as well, it is supposed to gradually break down remaining sediment so that it will circulate and be trapped by the filter. Unlike X400, you do not drain it out, you leave it in permanently.

 

[DIYNotIan]

yes and yes. But do you need the Compact version?

No, not necessarily. Just that someone offered me one at what seemed a good price. But I can shop around for the "Total", which I presume is the standard size.

After a quick look I see it is fitted to the return pipe to the boiler. I'll see if I can figure out which one that is and then check to see that the Total will fit ok.

1 litre is enough for an average sized house. Do the X400 clean first.

Thanks for confirming. And yep, inhibitor last. Got that.

if you fit a filter and then add some Sentinel X900 as well, it is supposed to gradually break down remaining sediment so that it will circulate and be trapped by the filter. Unlike X400, you do not drain it out, you leave it in permanently.

Maybe I'll add some of that to the shopping list then. Presumably it can live in the system with the inhibitor without causing any problems (can't imagine they'd sell it otherwise!!). Thanks for the heads up on that.

Cheers

 

[DIYNotIan]

I've just seen that the x400 is available in a 275ml concentrate gel which can be injected using a caulk gun via a radiator bleed valve. That sounds damn handy!

I might go with that option to make life easier....

And another thing. There is a valve on the outlet of my F+E tank. If I turn that off and then drain 300-400ml from a radiator (or however much is necessary), could I then simply inject the concentrate into the radiator, close the bleed valve again, re-open the F+E stop valve, smile at how quick and easy it was? Or have I missed something there?

Cheers

 

[JohnD]

you could, but water will be trying to come out of the bleed valve all the time you have it open, and will probably push the chemical back into the room so it spills onto the floor. To avoid this you will might have to drain as least as much water as if you were filling via the F&E, and you will have to empty the F&E as well.

there should not be an valve on the F&E pipe as it is one of the two pipes by which pressure can escape in the event of an overheating boiler.

 

[DIYNotIan]

you could, but water will be trying to come out of the bleed valve all the time you have it open, and will probably push the chemical back into the room so it spills onto the floor. To avoid this you will might have to drain as least as much water as if you were filling via the F&E, and you will have to empty the F&E as well.

Oh yes, didn't think of that. Doh! OK, well back to the normal bottle via the header tank in that case.

there should not be an valve on the F&E pipe as it is one of the two pipes by which pressure can escape in the event of an overheating boiler.

Well, there is something there and I presume it is there to close the pipe. Whether it is technically called a valve or not I don't know, but I presume so. Here's a pic:

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• DIYNotIan
• 18 Dec 2014
• 1

 

[JohnD]

yes, it appears to be a gate-valve with a round handle (stopcocks have T-handles)

 

[DIYNotIan]

yes, it appears to be a gate-valve with a round handle (stopcocks have T-handles)

Thanks for explaining. I'm going to be a qualified plumber by the time I'm done at this rate!

So, should this be removed then if it is not supposed to be there?

 

[JohnD]

it would be safer to remove it.

 

[DIYNotIan]

OK. I wonder what the hell made them put it there in the first place. Mind you, that same question could be asked for a lot of what has been found in the loft. And the rest of the house come to think of it!