Combi, system or regular boiler?

[reggieroo]

Right I'm in need of a new boiler as I have been without one since Xmas.
The boiler I have is an Ideal WLX by stelrad group & is leaking water all over the place from the casing seal, when on that is.

I have a few questions I need answering so I can make the right decision on which type of boiler to go for & what set up to have.

I'll start with my house info so to give an idea of what might be best for me & my new family ( a new baby on the way in 6 weeks )

3 bed detached bungalow, nine radiators, one bathroom & a toilet/cloakroom. Also an open fire in the lounge with a back boiler ( currently disconnected). The system I have in place at the moment is a regular boiler with the hot water tank in the airing cupboard & water cistern in the loft. Also we run on LPG gas bottles as we have no mains gas in the village.

The boiler I have at the moment is around 25 years old & gave up the goose last Xmas, leaving us with no central heating as we couldn't afford a new boiler. I've still had hot water as I have just used electric to heat the tank when needed. I bought some cheap oil filled radiators & had a coal/log fire every night to get us through the Winter. Now Summer's coming to an end & a new baby on the way I need central heating again.

I've been thinking about hooking the back boiler back up with a neutraliser to a new regular boiler to save on LPG costs. I had a chap out the other day & told me that the back boiler will only heat the water as it's not that big & to work out if it will make me any savings over the year. I have a coal/log fire nearly every night in Winter so thought it would be wise to use the back boiler so I'm not just wasting the energy.

I was then thinking doesn't your hot water heat up anyway when your central heating is on, which would be on most of the Winter anyway?
So is it worth the extra expense of hooking up the back boiler as the water would already be hot wouldn't it?

So this is the dilemma I having & I'm not sure what to do as I've had a few people out & have all told me different things. I bascicly want to keep fuel bills down to a minimum as we will stuggle more than ever now with a new baby on the way.

Do I go for a combi boiler for their efficiency (so i'm told) or system boiler( I like the thought of still having hot water in the event of a boiler breakdown), or hook up the back boiler (at extra cost) with a regular boiler to try & keep LPG bills down?

Bit of a long post I know but wanted to give as much info to people in order to get the right advise.

 

[mickyg]

Is the boiler not repairable? These boilers often leak cos the heat exchanger gasket washers go. The heat exchanger can be seperated, washers replaced and away you go.

 

[reggieroo]

Is the boiler not repairable? These boilers often leak cos the heat exchanger gasket washers go. The heat exchanger can be seperated, washers replaced and away you go.

I've been told not, I guess it would be if the right person where to come along but getting somebody to even give me a quote is hard work round here.

I wanted to get it repaired but the misses is insisting on a new energy efficient condensing boiler. So if this is the way we go then what would be the most energy efficient system for us in the long run?

 

[mickyg]

Repairing your existing boiler if possible would probably represent better value

It may be worth looking into using a wood burner and thermal store, with a boiler as top up.
you could try posting here for some good info.

 

[maltaron]

If your back boiler is OK it would make sense to use it as it is a source of heat and will add to the system. What size is the back boiler?

One 3 bed house that I had had a high output back boiler that supplied all hot water and heating. Without knowing your system I cannot be certain, but having experienced several properties, with and without gas, I would suggest that using the two heat sources at appropriate times, like switching off the boiler when the fire is on, would save a lot of LPG.

Remember, if the bungalow is warmed through from the boiler, it will not need much heat from the back boiler to keep it warm. If you are really keen to save running costs you will soon discover the most economical way of running things. On another tack, have you thought about oil. I have had LPG and oil and even with the volativity of oil prices have found oil much cheaper.

If your buying a new boiler the change to oil is easy. I too, live in a bungalow and have carried on with a similar sytem to my last house, which is an oil fired cooker/boiler. Mine is a Stanley but Rayburn is another possibility. In summer it switches on from 4pm to 6 the wife cooks dinner and that gives a cylinder of hot water. In winter we run central heating for 2 hours in the morning and use an open fire in the lounge at night. Cost about £300 a year at current oil prices.

I hope this has given you something to think about.

 

[Agile]

So this is the dilemma I having & I'm not sure what to do as I've had a few people out & have all told me different things. I bascicly want to keep fuel bills down to a minimum as we will stuggle more than ever now with a new baby on the way.

Thats why I dont go out giving free advice! I leave it to the fools who dont know what they are doing and are strugling to get enough work.

I discuss the needs and give a budgetary quote over the phone. If thats acceptable then I usually visit to confirm the quote and get a signed acceptance.

If anyone wanted a design to use to obtain quotes then we charge a nominal price for that ( £84 ).

Tony

 

[bengasman]

Can't comment on existing boiler as it depends on the overall state of it, but doubt that it is economically interesting to carry out a big repair.

Backboiler revival is almost surely a bad idea; it will probably cost a fair bit to get it going, and due to the poor design, and the need for a large ventilation opening (creating a 24/7 draft that costs a lot to compensate), you will be using about twice the fuel compared to a properly installed combi.

The downside of converting the old installation to a combi, is that a proper job costs proper money; if money is tight, and you pay for a budget job, a budget job is what you will get.

On the whole, I'd say that if you can afford a good, new boiler installation, go for it. If you can't afford that, get your old one repaired; it is a simple machine, and with a bit of luck and tlc, you can get a few more years out of it. Recommissioning the bbu is worst option.

 

[Agile]

Converting to a combi will cost more than just fitting a new heat only boiler.

Keeping the hot water cylinder, if suitable, will also give better hot water deopivery than any normal combi.

Tony

 

[reggieroo]

I've been told the back boiler will only heat the hot water & not the radiators as its not big enough. I thought maybe this will still save me some cash in the long run but then thought the hot water will be hot anyway when I have the central heating/radiators on so whats the point?

I've thought about oil but we have no room for a tank & we have just got rid of our LPG bulk tank to get our garden back & have converted to bottles to save space.

So we will be sticking with LPG for the foreseeable future.

 

[reggieroo]

Converting to a combi will cost more than just fitting a new heat only boiler.

Keeping the hot water cylinder, if suitable, will also give better hot water delivery than any normal combi.

We had a quote for a combi at £2600 & he told us it was cheaper than just replacing our existing regular boiler which I thought was odd. He also quoted on a new regular boiler & back boiler hook up at £4800 which he wasn't keen on doing.

We never used him at those prices & the fact that he only seemed interested in fitting a combi & not really interested in our needs or what we wanted.

 

[mickyg]

I've been told the back boiler will only heat the hot water & not the radiators as its not big enough.

thats just poor advice. It all depends on what kind of output you can get from it. If it was used in conjuction with a thermal store you would probably get a substantial amount of heating from it. You can then use a boiler as a top up, but with only 9 radiators, Its quite possible you could be running heating and hot water just from the back boiler. Unforutately finding the right person to get in to advise will be tricky which is why i gave you a link to another forum where you might get more appropriate advice.

 

[reggieroo]

Wouldn't the cost of hooking up the back boiler to a thermal store & also a new boiler be a lot?

It sounds like what I want to do but the cost of the whole job is a consideration as can't afford to spend thousands of ££££s

 

[kevindgas]

a new heat only boiler, using the existing radiators upgrading to TRV's and a new set of controls shouldn't cost you £2,600 !!
i could come down do the job, stay in a hotel overnight have a evening meal with wine and still beat that price FFS! oh and give you a decent boiler like worcester or vaillant!

 

[mickyg]

Wouldn't the cost of hooking up the back boiler to a thermal store & also a new boiler be a lot?

It sounds like what I want to do but the cost of the whole job is a consideration as can't afford to spend thousands of ££££s

it might cost a few quid yeh, probably in the region of 5-6k. But you would mostly only pay for heating and hot water what you pay for logs. If your gas bill is over 1k a year(easy with lpg) then you could have the money back in 6-7 years. If you can't afford that kind of outlay then go for a standard system, but just bear in mind the rising cost of LPG.

 

[reggieroo]

a new heat only boiler, using the existing radiators upgrading to TRV's and a new set of controls shouldn't cost you £2,600 !!
i could come down do the job, stay in a hotel overnight have a evening meal with wine and still beat that price FFS! oh and give you a decent boiler like worcester or vaillant!

That was for a combi boiler, the qoute for £2600 with a small Valliant.

What should I be looking to pay for a new Worcester Bosch combi fitted?

What should I be looking to pay for a new Worcester Bosch regular boiler fitted?