Dangerous Threads

[ericmark]

I have read a thread called Widow Maker. Although most electricians know what this is and also about other dangerous methods like how to repair a cooker which has got damp I think to detail these dangerous methods, instead of warning of the dangers, in fact shows the DIY man how to use dangerous short cuts.

Unfortunately often when people copy dangerous short cuts they don't copy the precautions taken by the guy who worked out how to do it in the first place.

I had this at work where a concrete press operator realised that there were safety switches on the gate to access a pallet loading area and would open the gate an inch then jump up on the machine to remove an obstruction. The next operator half copied him jumping up on the machine but not opening the gate and the machine ran over his hand.

The same applies to other short cuts and either one needs to detail exactly how to do it safety as possible. (Clearly not safe) or do not even hint on how it can be done.

I hope the administrators will completely remove the Widow Maker thread so I ask would those who know how to use short cuts just keep it to themselves in future? and never put up pictures which can result in the practice being half copied.

 

[bernardgreen]

I have to disagree with the request that the administrators will completely remove the Widow Maker thread.

It is ( in my opionion ) better to highlight these kinds of incident and explain why such methods and/or equipment are dangerous.

Taking the widow maker as an example. The people who make things like the widow maker only see the need to supply power to their house and do not see the wider dangers to people working on the network. They are not able to see the wider image due to lack of knowledge on the subject.

Explaining to people why they are dangerous may prevent them being used or help to ensure they are used in a way that has lowest and manageable risks.

I might go so far as to suggest a "Black Museum" section where details of dangerous work and the aftermath can be seen to show the DIYers tht they MUST become informed BEFORE starting any work.

 

[Space cat]

I have to agree with bernardgreen on this one. The example I saw wasn't copied off any internet forum (there were none back then) and it wouldn't have been found in any book. It could only have been cobbled together by one or more individuals who probably thought they were being clever but didn't think beyond their immediate need for a two-way extension lead.

 

[JohnW2]

I have to disagree with the request that the administrators will completely remove the Widow Maker thread.
It is ( in my opionion ) better to highlight these kinds of incident and explain why such methods and/or equipment are dangerous.

I agree.

There is, of course, always the risk of putting dangerous ideas into people's minds but, on balance, (and IMO) deaths like Westie described are more likely to be prevented than caused by bringing these dangers to people's attention.

By analogy, one might express concern about 'putting dangerous things into people's minds' by telling children not to play with matches or knoves, not to run across roads without looking,not to talk to strangers etc.etc. - but I think most people would agree that the benefit of such education outweighs the theoretical 'riskes'.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Alarm]

Shall we just wrap everyone in cotton wool?

Of course these should be allowed, as mentioned to highlight the dangers and to make people think twice about their own lives and others they may affect.

So keep these by all means.

 

[Robin0577]

Shall we just wrap everyone in cotton wool?

Only if we can be sure that the cotton wool is kept completely dry, so as to keep its insulation resistance as high as possible and that only flame retardant cotton wool is used.

 

[mattylad]

I agree with leaving the thread there.

Because of that thread I (as one of the DIY'rs this forum is aimed at) will never make one of those for any form of lead.





I'll solder nails on the end of the cable instead

 

[conny]

Keep these types of thread but explain WHY they are dangerous 'shortcuts'.

I will not be surprised if someone knows of an 'incident' where a widowmaker has been used and the DIYer thought he was only feeding that one double gang socket. He then plugs his multigang extension in to the other outlet of that socket before going off to work on another part of the circuit believing it is dead at that point because he is only feeding that one socket.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Darwinism.

 

[SimonH2]

It is ( in my opionion ) better to highlight these kinds of incident and explain why such methods and/or equipment are dangerous.

Taking the widow maker as an example. The people who make things like the widow maker only see the need to supply power to their house and do not see the wider dangers to people working on the network. They are not able to see the wider image due to lack of knowledge on the subject.

I agree - but I'd go further. Few of the people who make these are likely to even read this forum, and I strongly suspect that most of those who do come here are (for want of a better description) not the sediment in the bottom of the IQ barrel.

If someone wants to power up their house, and especially if they already have the genny, they'll make one of these without knowing it's called a Widow maker and as you say will be oblivious to the risks. I really, really doubt that many (if any) people would see that thread and go off to do it because it had never occurred to them - I think most people actually capable of fitting a plug can grasp the concept of "need lead with connector to fit end A and connector to fit end B".

So I say keep these threads - but explain why they are dangerous. I think few people actually want to actively do dangerous things*, most would thank you for highlighting the danger. They may well still make/use one - but at least they'll have some notion of how not to kill themselves or others.

* Well ... apart from activities like jumping out of a perfectly serviceable aircraft and hoping a bedsheet will deploy itself from the backpack, or jumping off a bridge and hoping the rubber band doesn't snap, etc, etc.

 

[mattylad]

Precisely, the original post may well contain information that is dangerous and it is upto the rest of the forum that know better to point this out and explain why it is dangerous and what to do about it.

(Preferably in a nice way without insults.)

 

[ericmark]

I was not referring to just the adaptor lead but also other dangerous practices which I will admit I have from time to time done. The conscientious seems to be we should talk about it.

I still feel there are things which we should keep to ourselves clearly anyone walking the streets in Turkey will see many of the adaptor leads coiled up on top of the generator near the entrance of many small shops.

The other was the method used to dry out ovens which have absorbed moisture and trip out the RCD. I am sure most electricians use the same method which is of course against all the rules but as with the widow maker if done with care can be done in a safe manor but when the dangers are not understood can also be very dangerous.

I am sure there are many more where as skilled people we take a calculated risk but if half copied could be very dangerous.

Now as a one to one with the apprentice one can carefully relate what short cuts we take and ensure he understands the dangers and the fact it breaks the rules and should not be done while anyone is watching. However on an open forum we see again and again how people half read what we have said. We have no way to see if the dangers are understood and as with the bungy jump where the elastic are very important it is so easy for something to be half copied. Clearly using a ski rope for a bungy jump would be very dangerous as the ski rope has very little stretch.

 

[transam]

interesting thread " widow maker " in particular the solar pv comments !

so how come u fellas do not have a closed forum like the gas fitters CC forum ??

 

[mattylad]

Because this is a DIY site and the law allows us to DIY electrics but not gas.

 

[JohnD]

some.