Diesel again !

[empip]

http://www.theicct.org/news/press-r...aust-emissions-modern-diesel-cars-seven-times

"...On-road nitrogen oxides emission levels of modern diesel cars are on average about seven times higher than the limit set by the Euro 6 emission standard, which went into effect in September 2014. This is the key finding from anew report published todayin Berlin by the International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT), an independent research organization...

...The study is based on on-road tests of 15 vehicles using Portable Emissions Measurement Systems (PEMS). It covers more than 140 hours and 6,400 kilometers of driving, and provides the largest collection of public data on Euro 6 equivalent diesel cars currently available. Diesel vehicles make up about 50 per cent of all new cars in the EU. From September 2014 on, the Euro 6 standard applies to all new passenger car types.

“On average, we found that real-world nitrogen oxides emissions for modern diesel cars were about seven times higher than required by the Euro 6 standard”, says Dr. Peter Mock, Managing Director of ICCT Europe. The ICCT researchers demonstrate that the majority of exceedances found could not be attributed to extreme or untypical driving. Instead, they were due to driving situations that are part of the normal operation of diesel cars, such as mild uphill driving and regeneration events of the diesel exhaust aftertreatment system..."

Hmmm, 4 year MOT coming soon - is that to mitigate the (political) increased cost of a future MOT including on the road testing for emissions ?
Have said before - Euro-7 is to follow close behind Euro-6 - What hey cannot make due to '6' they will surely get when '7' arrives. We are being f'ked over by everyone and his brother who can obtain some kind of report which matches their agenda.

Consent (to high running costs for diesels) is being manufactured at a steady pace - will there be new diesel cars in 5 yrs time ?
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[Burnerman]

For sure it's bye bye to the unit injection system (pompe deuse) and hello to even more DPF's.......I've said this before, but on both our cars that don't qualify for any road tax you can run your finger inside the tail pipe and there's no dirt at all there - so surely no particulates? Obviously I can't comment on gas production though!
Exemption will have to be made for trucks and buses though, having a typical consumption of 8 mpg and there will surely be a glut of diesel globally.
I wonder how aircraft fare in all this.....ships are already being fitted with exhaust scrubbers (although it was hard to tell on the one I've just crossed the channel on!)
John

 

[Dave54]

They won't be content until the only transport we are allowed are donkey carts, and even then the donkey will have to be fitted with emission controls both ends.

 

[Avocet]

Yeah, it's going to get nasty. More / bigger DPFs won't help. This has nothing to do with particulate emissions. Oxides of nitrogen are typically produced when the engine runs very weak. The main advantage of a diesel engine (which gives it its excellent part-throttle fuel economy and good CO2 emissions) is that it can run MUCH weaker than a petrol engine. 60 or 70 to 1 air fuel ratio is not uncommon, whereas a petrol engine will start pinking and misfiring below about 20 to 1. AdBlue helps, but to get the "real life" figures low enough, we're going to have to carry HUGE quantities of it! My (Euro 5) car currently has a 70 litre fuel tank and a 17 litre AdBlue tank, which lasts about 16-18000 miles. I reckon we're either going to have to top up with AdBlue every other fillup or we're going to have to carry more like 50 litres of the stuff round with us!

 

[Astra99]

AdBlue, from what I can see on Google, is an aqueous urea solution. I would have thought the cheapest option would be to p**s in the tank!

 

[JBR]

I'm sick and tired of both the EU dictators and the greenies who assure us that the world is about to end.
We'll be getting a new (or nearly new) car before too long and I'm now not sure which way to go. My present old banger (it's excellent really, though eleven years old) is a diesel, but was made before someone had the bright idea of particulate filters and cats. If I had my way I'd keep it until it completely collapsed, but my wife has other ideas.
The trouble is, if we go for a petrol engine next time, will someone come up with an idea to make petrol even more expensive or perhaps some other expensive compulsory accessories that will have to be included with the engine to prevent the ozone layer disappearing?

 

[Avocet]

AdBlue, from what I can see on Google, is an aqueous urea solution. I would have thought the cheapest option would be to p**s in the tank!

it is! (it's a bit purer than the yellow stuff though).

 

[Avocet]

I'm sick and tired of both the EU dictators and the greenies who assure us that the world is about to end.
We'll be getting a new (or nearly new) car before too long and I'm now not sure which way to go. My present old banger (it's excellent really, though eleven years old) is a diesel, but was made before someone had the bright idea of particulate filters and cats. If I had my way I'd keep it until it completely collapsed, but my wife has other ideas.
The trouble is, if we go for a petrol engine next time, will someone come up with an idea to make petrol even more expensive or perhaps some other expensive compulsory accessories that will have to be included with the engine to prevent the ozone layer disappearing?

How many miles a year do you do? I think I'd have to be doing a good 15,000 - plus before a diesel made economic sense.

 

[empip]

More from http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33254803

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http://www.airqualitynews.com/2015/05/20/eu-adopts-real-world-vehicle-emissions-testing-procedure/

"...EU Member States approved European Commission proposals to introduce real-world driving air pollution emissions test procedures for motor vehicles in Brussels yesterday (May 19 2015).

New real world driving emissions test regulations are expected to come into force from September 2017

The proposal was voted in “with clear support from Member States” in the EU’s Technical Committee on Motor Vehicles “with two minor technical amendments” and is expected to come into force from September 2017, a Commission spokeswoman said..."

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[Avocet]

Yes, it's driving the car manufacturers nuts at present. The problem with the current test is that it was set up to be easily repeatable in a lab. Every vehicle does the same drive cycle. That means the low-powered vehicles like a Fiat Panda, would be nearly foot-to-the-floor on the acceleration parts of the drive cycle in order to follow it, whereas a Ferrari could do most of it at tickover or very tiny throttle openings. Obviously, human nature being what it is, nobody buys a Ferrari to drive it like a Panda! Over the years, manufacturers have got very good at "optimising" their vehicles to do well in the official test. Outside that envelope, they can be much worse, as those figures show. The downside of "real world" testing is the lack of repeatability and the big variability in results that you naturally get. For example, cars tested in the French Alps will be driving at higher altitude than most labs - and driving up steeper slopes. Cars tested near big cities will also be subject to hue variations, depending on whether they run into standing traffic or not. In order to pretty much guarantee that ANY vehicle taken at random could meet the emissions requirements at ANY time under ANY conditions, we're likely to see massive increases in AdBlue reservoir sizes on diesels and added emissions control equipment on petrols. I agree something is necessary to improve air quality, but I'm not sure this is the right way to go about it.

 

[JBR]

I'm sick and tired of both the EU dictators and the greenies who assure us that the world is about to end.
We'll be getting a new (or nearly new) car before too long and I'm now not sure which way to go. My present old banger (it's excellent really, though eleven years old) is a diesel, but was made before someone had the bright idea of particulate filters and cats. If I had my way I'd keep it until it completely collapsed, but my wife has other ideas.
The trouble is, if we go for a petrol engine next time, will someone come up with an idea to make petrol even more expensive or perhaps some other expensive compulsory accessories that will have to be included with the engine to prevent the ozone layer disappearing?

How many miles a year do you do? I think I'd have to be doing a good 15,000 - plus before a diesel made economic sense.

I'm retired now, so don't do anything like that.
However, when my wife retires we shall get rid of both our cars and replace with one, so we may well do that mileage or more as we intend to do a lot more 'going out for a drive'.
Still, a good point and along with all the other disadvantages that have been discussed I think we might not go for diesel.

 

[Avocet]

Petrol MIGHT get more expensive. Not as a result of any government action, but simple supply-and-demand as people turn away from diesels. That'll be the downside. It's a tricky one to bet on! I think we will see a new generation of cars with tiny, ultra-efficient petrol engines, like Ford's EcoBoost engine. They'll come much closer to diesel levels of efficiency than petrol engines have in the past, but at the expense of extra complexity. Then of course, there's electric vehicles - depending on what sort of range you'd be looking at. They're likely to come down in price.