DIY electrical work on non-Part-p certified house?

[HalfEatenFlapjack]

Hi

I am replacing my bathroom light with down lights. The lights I have are all Zone-1 IP65 rated, and fire rated. I am confident about installing them and wiring them correctly, but am not a certified electrician.

My house is not Part-P certified; we have an old-style fusebox, and it’s on my to-do list of things to get it replaced by a modern one and get the house certified (by a professional, obviously).

We have previously had other electrical work done (cooker hood installed, downstairs lights replaced with down lights) by professionals, and the electricians wouldn’t certify their work as we’re not part-p compliant.

What’s my legal position here? The house isn’t part-p cert anyway, so there’s nothing to ‘void’, and when I eventually get the fusebox replaced, presumably the electrician who does it will need to check that my work is OK, and also the work of the electricians who have previously worked on our house?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I am replacing my bathroom light with down lights. The lights I have are all Zone-1 IP65 rated, and fire rated. I am confident about installing them and wiring them correctly, but am not a certified electrician.

If the ceiling is more than 2.25m from floor level, go ahead.
If less then it's notifiable.
It's not supposed to make sense.
However, the work should be tested properly for which you will not have the equipment.

My house is not Part-P certified; we have an old-style fusebox, and it’s on my to-do list of things to get it replaced by a modern one and get the house certified (by a professional, obviously).

I know what you mean but houses aren't 'Part P' certified; only notifiable work since 2005.

We have previously had other electrical work done (cooker hood installed, downstairs lights replaced with down lights) by professionals, and the electricians wouldn’t certify their work as we’re not part-p compliant.

Issuing a certificate is separate and nothing to do with notification.
A certificate should be issued for all work - within reason.

What’s my legal position here?

As above.

The house isn’t part-p cert anyway, so there’s nothing to ‘void’, and when I eventually get the fusebox replaced, presumably the electrician who does it will need to check that my work is OK, and also the work of the electricians who have previously worked on our house?

When the fuse box is replaced with a Consumer Unit all circuits will/should be tested, notified and recorded.

 

[EFLImpudence]

and the electricians wouldn’t certify their work as we’re not part-p compliant.

Just to add -

Again, I know what you mean but Part P is actually a very short Building Regulation, the law, which states that all electrical work must be undertaken so that it is safe.

So, therefore, all electricians must be Part P compliant.

If they said they weren't Part P compliant (as opposed to a misunderstanding on your part) it does warrant some lack of confidence.

 

[ericmark]

I agree with what has been said but I think one has to look at the root idea of Part P.

Part P is designed to make it against the law to do work which does not comply with the rules made by regulatory bodies like the IET/BSi. It also lays out rules as to when an extra certificate (completion or complaint) has to be issued but that is secondary and the way it's worded hard to have hard and fast rules.

In 1992 the electrical regulations became BS 7671:1992 and electricians started to site exams to show they could read the book. Although there were requirements before this it was at this point when electricians started to document there work. As the next edition came out BS 7671:2001 there was more pressure placed on the issuing of installation and minor works certificates and Part P meant unless they issued a certificate they could be taken to court. What was odd about Part P it was the owner who was responsible for either using a scheme member or notifying the LABC but clearly without the minor works or installation certificate the owner would be unable to get is signed off so in general terms it is considered.

When minor works or installation certificate is issued then as long as the work done complies, and the electrician is not saying he's a scheme member it is down to the owner to pay any LABC fees and to present the certificates. However if the electrician claims to be a scheme member he has to inform the LABC of any notifiable work done.

Where no minor work or installation certificate has been issued the clearly the guy is not a proper electrician and likely will have cut corners and done sub-standard work.

However when with my fathers house the builder and electrician ran off into the hills of Corwen and we informed the LABC we would have to complete the work our selves there seemed to be nothing we could do to the builder or electrician we were told in no uncertain terms it was my dad's job as the owner to have checked the LABC had been informed or to have checked with the electrician that he was a scheme member. The fact the electrics were not completed and commissioned mean we had no chance of doing anything.

As to DIY in real terms that allows people like myself and my son who are electricians to work on their own house and submit the paper work to the LABC and get a completion certificate. Most real DIY guys just have not got the equipment to test so by time you include the cost of hire even if you know how to use it then not really cost effective to DIY.

In England if bathroom within laid out limits, a consumer unit change or work which required an installation certificate to be issued the it needs notifying. That does not mean where a Minor Works Certificate is good enough it should not be tested and inspected.

 

[JohnW2]

Part P is designed to make it against the law to do work which does not comply with the rules made by regulatory bodies like the IET/BSi.

As you are aware, the law (Part P of the Building Regulations) requires only that work be undertaken so as not to create risk (i.e. 'safely'), and does not necessarily require compliance with any particular rules of any particular regulatory bodies.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Part P is designed to make it against the law to do work which does not comply with the rules made by regulatory bodies like the IET/BSi.

As you are aware, the law (Part P of the Building Regulations) requires only that work be undertaken so as not to create risk (i.e. 'safely'), and does not necessarily require compliance with any particular rules of any particular regulatory bodies.

Kind Regards, John

I agree the wording does say following BS7671 is one method which is why I said "like" the IET/BSi as one could of course follow German or French equivalents and still have what is considered a "Safe" installation.

I have always said completing a Minor Works or Installation Certificate is mainly to protect the electrician so if something happens he can refer to the document and say with hand on heart "It was OK when I left".

The recent reports on this site of the death of a woman does point out how important paper work is. I am sure that foreman wished he had taken more care ensuring correct signature was on the form.

We have said many times on here anyone doing the work should fill in and sign the paperwork but clearly that is not really the case.

 

[JohnW2]

Part P is designed to make it against the law to do work which does not comply with the rules made by regulatory bodies like the IET/BSi.

As you are aware, the law (Part P of the Building Regulations) requires only that work be undertaken so as not to create risk (i.e. 'safely'), and does not necessarily require compliance with any particular rules of any particular regulatory bodies.

I agree the wording does say following BS7671 is one method which is why I said "like" the IET/BSi as one could of course follow German or French equivalents and still have what is considered a "Safe" installation.

As you know, the law (Part P) does not say anything about compliance any regulations/Standards. Approved Document P (which is guidance, not law) does say that compliance with BS7671 is one way of demonstrating compliance with the law, but it also stresses that compliance with BS7671 is not compulsory.

My point really was that, despite what many seem to think, UK law does not require compliance with any electrical regulations/Standards (UK, German, French or whatever). A sufficiently knowledgeable person could theoretically demonstrate that they had complied with the law without reference to any regulations/Standards.

I have always said completing a Minor Works or Installation Certificate is mainly to protect the electrician so if something happens he can refer to the document and say with hand on heart "It was OK when I left".

I suppose it may help them a bit, but certifying one's own compliance with the law is never going to be taken too seriously! Let's face it, the people we are most concerned about are those who not only undertake dodgy work but who also often produce dodgy (sometimes totally fictional!) certificates!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

We have previously had other electrical work done (cooker hood installed, downstairs lights replaced with down lights) by professionals, and the electricians wouldn’t certify their work as we’re not part-p compliant.

So they did not complete and leave you with a copy of a Minor Works Certificate for that work?

That sucks.

 

[ericmark]

Sorry to say this is common. My mother is disabled and as a result the council were to install a door bell which she could talk to caller without going to the door I had however beat them to it and installed a battery operated one so they agreed to modify it to mains operated.

Wires already in place but old door bell needed linking out and 12vac transformer swapping for 12vdc power supply.

Electricians employed by council arrived and wired and swapped 12vac transformer for a 12vac transformer. Ups!

Called back and it seems they could not source a 12vdc power supply which could be screwed to back board in the same way so swapped the transformer for a 230vac socket and plugged in a power supply which fed door bell.

No RCD protection on socket, no notice to say door bell only, and no minor works and this was done by a scheme member electrical company working for the local council so what chance has the normal man in the street of getting paperwork for work completed.

I did chase up for paper work but after 2 months gave up. Note this was in Wales.