Dodgy RSJ install

[emphasis303]

Hi guys

a neighbour of mine is having an extension built and I have been watching the builders randomly for a while. I especially became interested when it came time to put in the rsj, which seems rather over sized.

The first thing I felt they did wrong was once they knocked out the window and took out the lintel, they just used two pieces of wood setup in like a T shape. The problem with this was that the part that was acting as a lintel at the top cover what looked like not even half of the span of the original lintel.

The second think I felt was wrong was that once the beam was in, the guy used woden wedges and hammerd them in as support. He then built the brick back up just throwing in mortar at the top.

I was under the impression wood should not be used and the beam should be jacked up with acrows and not to just simply build the brick work back up which from where I was standing didnt seem to be very effective.

I dont know what you guys think, if what I have told u sounds like a bodged job, what do you think I should do? Should I tell my neighbour? or should I just leave it?

One more thing to mention is, they do enjoy their fosters lol

 

[Richard C]

Without knowing the sizes of the opening/lintel/beam no way of knowing; it is possible to create a new opening without supporting the brick work above as the bricks are self supporting as long as you don’t go too wide. Hammering in timber wedges as support over the top of the beam (if that’s what’s been done) is not right & the beam should bear directly onto the brickwork or a mortar bed. There should also be a minimum of 150mm bearing at each end & if the beam is supporting any significant weight above, concrete pad stones to support the beam at either end. If your on friendly terms with your neighbour I think you owe it to him to point out what you’ve seen but a new beam for an extension sounds as though it’s almost certainly notifyable work in which case there should be building inspection of the beam support & installation before it’s all covered up & one would hope the inspector would pick it up.

Personally if I caught anybody working for me drinking other than tea or coffee I'd chuck them off the site.

 

[^woody^]

There are no "rules" requiring acrows to be used.

You can prop the wall with whatever you like, and as long as it stays up, its a good job.

Same for the wedges - used temporarily until the brickwork is packed

In fact, it could be said that they are very experienced in that they know that timber can be used!

Whether the beam needs to be jacked up. or be placed at a specific level to support other elements and the wall infilled, is design dependant.

 

[AtoZ]

it is hard to say without opening sizes.
i do find it interesting that someone who does not know how to do the work will go round to a neighbour and tell him that his builders are doing it wrong.

i cant tell from the op's post if the wood is being used to drive the beam upwards to compress a mortar joint or on top of the beam to keep the bricks in place till the mortar goes off.

i notice that the rsj is too big.
i feel that builders would not put anything too big in place because its heavy to lift. its almost certain that the rsj has been specified.
possible that the builders have 'one in the van' or go bigger to avoid problems but i cant see a down side to having a big-un ooerr.

i wonder what we did before rsj's and acrow's

i dont like the beer on site but i think you would have to close every big site every afternoon if you wanted a 'dry' site.

op
why not ask the builder? he may well have good reason to do what hes doing.

 

[emphasis303]

hi eveyone

thanks for the replies

I can confirm the wodden wedges are being used permanently as they have now finished work on that part of the beam and after the wedges were put in he started filling it with mortar.

I dont wana cause problems and am in no way a builder but sometimes things are so obvious that you just know when something isnt right.

Also im not sure who the builder is, as there are about 5 or 6 eastern europan guys on site.

The rsj thats been put in is about 4 metres or around that figure. Half of it is supporting the existing house and the other half is just running over onto the new part and is supporting nothing. The roof for the extension has been started.

As the neighbours are new I havent had any contact with them, but im not the sort of guy to go around faultering others work especially when im not a builder hence why I came on here.

Thanks very much

 

[alarmnewb]

Mind your own business you clearly have far too much time on your hands let the poles or kosovans or whatever they are get on with it.

 

[^woody^]

The beam would normally be oversized as it is taking a part load, with greater stress at a concentrated point rather than evenly along its length.

Even wooden wedges, although a bit unauthordox, would not be a big problem if the adjacent brickwork is packed properly. But the counter argument is if the guys are leaving the wooden wedges in, can they be relied upon to pack the rest sufficiently?

Its goes on, and the real test is if the wall stays up without cracking. Personally, I don't think it will go anywere just because of timber wedges left in place

 

[noseall]

timber wedges are extremely effective at applying localised pressure to individual elements of a building.

once mortar has been slotted into any gaps then the timber wedge can be removed or sawn off. the majority of the masonry will be secure with shrink-free mortar.

i salute the fact they used wedges at all.

nosey parker or eastern E prejudice? mmm.

 

[Shytalkz]

The beam would normally be oversized as it is taking a part load, with greater stress at a concentrated point rather than evenly along its length.

Eh?! If it's oversized, it's probably because a RICS rather than an MIStructE designed it - or no-one did and the builder's put in what he thought was right/was in the back of the van/the only one in stock/nobbed from another site etc etc...

 

[fastneattrowel]

Hi guys

a neighbour of mine is having an extension built and I have been watching the builders randomly for a while. I especially became interested when it came time to put in the rsj, which seems rather over sized.

The first thing I felt they did wrong was once they knocked out the window and took out the lintel, they just used two pieces of wood setup in like a T shape. The problem with this was that the part that was acting as a lintel at the top cover what looked like not even half of the span of the original lintel.

The second think I felt was wrong was that once the beam was in, the guy used woden wedges and hammerd them in as support. He then built the brick back up just throwing in mortar at the top.

I was under the impression wood should not be used and the beam should be jacked up with acrows and not to just simply build the brick work back up which from where I was standing didnt seem to be very effective.

I dont know what you guys think, if what I have told u sounds like a bodged job, what do you think I should do? Should I tell my neighbour? or should I just leave it?

One more thing to mention is, they do enjoy their fosters lol

are you a policeman

 

[Bowness72]

If not, why not

 

[emphasis303]

woow!

guys calm down! I am not trying to cause problems for my neighbour and builder, its just i read on this site that wood shouldnt be used and the beam should be jacked up with two acrows. If I was certain they were doing it wrong then I wouldnt be posting on here would i!?

anyway thanks for the info and input much appreciated.

 

[AtoZ]

woow!

guys calm down! I am not trying to cause problems for my neighbour and builder, its just i read on this site that wood shouldnt be used and the beam should be jacked up with two acrows. If I was certain they were doing it wrong then I wouldnt be posting on here would i!?

anyway thanks for the info and input much appreciated.

i think your intentions were good. its just that builders get such bad press.
a bbc jouno will suggest something on the tele and suddenly everyones an expert.
theres more than one way to skin a cat.

anyway, i read my reply and i does seem a bit harsh on you.

 

[emphasis303]

its ok I understand that there r ppl out there just looking to make trouble


Thanks for all the replies, it is very much apreciated

 

[fastneattrowel]

woow!

guys calm down! I am not trying to cause problems for my neighbour and builder, its just i read on this site that wood shouldnt be used and the beam should be jacked up with two acrows. If I was certain they were doing it wrong then I wouldnt be posting on here would i!?

anyway thanks for the info and input much appreciated.

keep them peeled