Door widening

[Steve]

In our new house we have two doors upstairs that are narrower than all the others. The normal door openings are approx 790mm wide. The toilet and bathroom doors are narrower, at 680mm. These sizes are from memory so may not be totally accurate. However, the bathroom door doesnt bother me, as it is being boarded up. The wall between toilet and bathroom will be knocked down and we will use the toilet door to access the room.

The door sits at the end of a thermalite block wall, so one edge is against an external brick wall. The more i dig into the door frames the more I think this isn't going to be a worthwhile cause and I should put up with the narrow door. But then will I get the new bath in?

Anyway, pictures . . .
this wall will be removed. The frame you see, I want to extend to the left.

Above all the door lining sides is an upright of timber that appears to be embedded in the wall.

What trade could do this widening for me? Should I get a builder in? Or a joiner?



Also, another issue, I was planning to remove all the door linings and renew, but they are massive chunks of wood, probably due to holding up the walls above them, so I won't be doing this. However, i would like to level off the tops! A couple of them are an inch out! What is the best way to do this?

I thought about maybe using some new door lining and adding it into the existing frames, but this would make the frames at least 1.5inch shorter. Would this be acceptable?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Even in Victorian buildings the door casing wouldn't normally be used to hold up the wall - there should be a timber or possibly a stone lintel.beneath the plaster above the door, even where the masons have incorporated a ring know arch I to the building I'd expect to see this so I think it would be OK to remove the casings if required.

 

[Steve]

Even in Victorian buildings the door casing wouldn't normally be used to hold up the wall - there should be a timber or possibly a stone lintel.beneath the plaster above the door, even where the masons have incorporated a ring know arch I to the building I'd expect to see this so I think it would be OK to remove the casings if required.

There are timbers extending from the top corners of the frame up to the ceiling. Its as if they wanted to put a window in but decided to brick it up. But definitely no lintels.

I have come to a decision anyway, I will remove the blocks above the two worst bedroom doors and level the door header, leaving the sides in situ. The architraves should cover up much of this, then I'll frame above the doors and board it. I'm not looking at removing the sides because they are nailed into clinker block, thus extremely well fixed. Would end up pulling a lot of wall out.

Re the bathroom door, i will remove the clinkerblock bathroom dividing wall, then the wall above the door, and the door lining. The wall teeth left next to the door will be chopped off with a grinder and SDS drill, forming the new wider door opening, fit a new door lining then make good the top and edges. Phew.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

There are timbers extending from the top corners of the frame up to the ceiling. Its as if they wanted to put a window in but decided to brick it up. But definitely no lintels

In that case I'd install a reinforced concrete one and have done because a door frame/casing shouldn't ever be relied on in this way. What you have is a bodge job from the sound of it, and potentially unsound

 

[Gerrydelasel]

There are timbers extending from the top corners of the frame up to the ceiling.

Are you sure? Are you sure it's not a lath and stud wall? The photo you posted only shows the normal door casing.

 

[Steve]

In that case I'd install a reinforced concrete one and have done because a door frame/casing shouldn't ever be relied on in this way. What you have is a bodge job from the sound of it, and potentially unsound

I wouldn't call it unsound. Have you seen the thicknesss of the timbers? Anyway, all these are holding up is the blocks above the doors. Nothing above.

Definitely not a lath and plaster wall. 100% clinkerblock. It was a council house built in the 50s. At least some of these walls were actually built after the ceilings were boarded. And none of them have any support under them, built onto the floorboards wherever they were needed - not necessarily over a joist.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

It's been accepted practice for more than 100 years that door and window openings require some form of lintel. Using the door casing as a support really is a bodge...... Beginning to wonder if that house was ever inspected by a Clerk of Works because the standard of building sounds truly awful

 

[Steve]

It's been accepted practice for more than 100 years that door and window openings require some form of lintel. Using the door casing as a support really is a bodge...... Beginning to wonder if that house was ever inspected by a Clerk of Works because the standard of building sounds truly awful

Indeed. However my mum's house is slightly older and the same scenarios. Clinker block walls with no lintels and built onto floorboards. This house is not alone.in having been built like this.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Still doesn't make it right, though. When you pull buildings apart for a living you see all sorts of (sometimes unsafe) second rate work which isn't permitted any longer, if in fact it ever was. I've had to overcome problems on my own house (Victorian terrace) which were bodges even in Victorian times. All I'm saying is that if/when you find something which obviously isn't right, like a "supporting" door frame, you **should** possibly be thinking in terms of putting it right - and on larger projects such as ones I work on where there is a structural engineer and/or a building control officer involved you have no choice.

 

[Steve]

As I was saying. There are no lintels. The door lining is made of 4x2s which go from floor to ceiling where they meet a block wall. Where they meet a brick wall they stop at the top of the door. Above all the doors is slim blockwork. The door linings went in before the block walls were built. As if to guide the brickies. There were nails driven into the back of the linings.

As you can see I've bitten the bullet and taken out a strip of blockwork alongside the bathroom door lining. I will keep the 4x2 along the outside wall and fasten the new door lining to it.

 

[chappers]

A lot of the post war houses around our way are built like that with blockwork above the linings, but that being said the linings are like modern or Victorian linings but usually in the 50-60mm thick range.
I would rip out the whole lot cut a neat line down the block wall and stud around your new door opening and then fit a standard lining. I might even be tempted to take down the whole wall and stud it, if only to avoid plastering over mixed media.

 

[Steve]

A lot of the post war houses around our way are built like that with blockwork above the linings, but that being said the linings are like modern or Victorian linings but usually in the 50-60mm thick range.
I would rip out the whole lot cut a neat line down the block wall and stud around your new door opening and then fit a standard lining. I might even be tempted to take down the whole wall and stud it, if only to avoid plastering over mixed media.

I am tempted, none of these walls are supporting. Even the ceilings were boarded prior to the walls being built. However my plasterer has said he will board over this entire wall. This is the only wall with "mixed media". I am going to strip the plaster off both sides to make the plasterers job a bit easier. The other doors form alcoves if that makes sense, so the new studwork above them is isolated from blockwork by a corner.

 

[Steve]

I've taken out all of the old door lining. I was going to leave the section attached to the brick wall but it was too chunky - the new lining wouldn't fit. So i took it all out. It was fastened together with 6 inch nails!

I have fastened the new lining straight to the wall on the right, then found a couple of good fixing points opposite as in the pictures. The door will hang from the right.

Should i attempt to secure it further or is this sufficient? I will be building a frame above it for boarding but this will afford little support as it will only be fastened to the ceiling and the right hand wall. The timber left poking out of the ceiling (just visible on the top left of the first photo) is only hanging there, just nailed into from above the ceiling. It cannot be used as support for anything, in fact i may remove it.

 

[chappers]

as long as its level, plumb and firm, but would prefer some restraint at the top and particularly the bottom, where you should be able to fix a block into the floor if the block work is a bit shonky. you could then get one side dot and dabbed and then fill the gap with foam or board adhesive.
My only criticism is that unless you have space constraints I would have brought the right hand side out from the wall so that you could get architrave on.
Fix your top frame to the top side and head of the lining that should be fine for a couple of bits of plasterboard that size.