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Ferroli Falcon repeated lock out

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by cappa, 10 Nov 2006.

This topic originated from the How to page called Problems associated with noises from the central heating system.

  1. cappa

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    My Ferroli falcon keeps going into lock out on both hot water and central heating. It is intermitant and can start up and work for a few hours at a time before locking out. It is locking out the split second it recieves the call for hot water or heating before the fan has had time to get up to speed and make the pressure switch and before the ignition cycle so I don\\\'t think these are the problem. I tried linking out the 100 degree safety stat as this is a normaly closed switch but it makes no difference and in any case with this left open it does not shut down the boiler until after the fan pressure switch is made so my fault is occuring earlier in the start up cycle. Any suggestions greatfully recieved
     
  2. Vectrasri

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    I have got EXACTLY the same problem!!

    just bought a new fan and air pressure valve thinking it was that but still not working!

    It does fire occasionally then seems to work fine, but today will do nothing. When you turn it on I can here a relay click in the PCB, normally the boiler would fire but its dead. PUMP is OK

    Any help or ideas appreciated....its freezin here!
     
  3. cappa

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    Vectrasri, I owe you many thanks indeed. As soon as you mentioned relays clicking, it all clicked into place. My wifes car was having strarting problems recently and after much messing about I traced the fault to the starter relay contacts. I think the problem we both have is burnt contacts on the boilers demand ralay. I was onto my second bottle of wine tonight when it occured to me. Anyway, if you look at the PCB board tbere are 2 Omron relays with clear plastic cases that enables you to look at the contacts being energised, one of my relays had the tell tale smoked residue on the inside of the plastic casing. I have cleaned it up with wet and dry paper and although it is early days the boiler has not gone off again. Wet and dry paper is not ideal as it leaves a silicone residue that can cause contact burn but it was all I had handy. Also be carefull with spray on contact cleaner as some can damage plastics. them metal nail files you can get should do the job if you have one handy. Prize the clear casing off your relay by pressing a terminal driver through the small sguare cut out on the side of the relay. let me know if this is your problem as well. If the contacts are badly burnt you may need a new relay but they are fairly cheap. Regards Tony
     
  4. cappa

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    I may have spoken too soon. I am still getting the shutdown problem. I am going to replace the two relays when I get a bit of time at the weekend as I am running out of other ideas. I am leaning towards it being a PCB fault in which case I might end up buying a new boiler as its not worth spending the money on mine. Does anyone know what the resistance on the fan motor should be as I would like to eliminate that as a possible cause. Regards tony
     
  5. cappa

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    I have now sorted the problem (touch wood). 24 hours and no shut downs. The problem turned out to be dry soldered joints on the main PCB board. I found 2 bad joints, resoldered them and the boiler is now running fine. Replacing the board would have resulted in the same outcome but would have cost near to £200. This could be a weakness on the Ferroli boards as someone was selling their old faulty boards on ebay after replacing them due to the same fault i.e. shutdown failure the split second it gets the call for heat. During fault finding I could not replicate such an early shutdown by causing open circuit in any of the normally closed sensors or by linking out the fan flow pressure switch which needs to be open circuit at the start. If you get this fault I would try taking the board out and inspect the soldered joints with a magnifying glass, could save you a bit of money in the long run.
     
  6. Paul Barker

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    Thanks for that tip I'd better tell my mate, I had already suggested a pcb and was going to get Raden to sort one for him, but he went all Gritish Bas about it and asjked them for a service contract, they took one look at boiler and said, can we send a nice salesman round to sell you a boiler.

    Sorry this is a story.

    They also offered to fix his boiler and agreed with me it may need a pcb but he would have to pay for that whether it was the fault or not and he would have to keep paying. This presumably was intended to send him running to the new boiler sales department. But they weren't aware he had a mate in the trade.

    So next he axes me to fit him a new boiler if he goes off to b and q at the weekend. Yes of course I will, but Baxi are vertually giving away their duotec Steve. So I just about talked him into that, and now I realise I just have to go round with my soldering iron.

    Funilly enough I have fixed a few boiler myself with nothing but dry joints.

    You are probably right on this one. I was thinking fan relay myself, as no amount of tapping the aps gets it started yet a tap on the region o0f the pcb does, but a dry joint would have the same symptom.
     
  7. P68EMC

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    Hi
    I have a ferroli falcon Mk1 ( I think it was installed in 2000) and last night the demand LED was lit but the boiler would not light for DHW or central heating. The fan is not running I have checked the over temp thermostats and safety cutouts and all seem fine. The boiler does not even attempet to fire up. The boiler does not go into lockout (red LED lit) I can hear a relay dropping in and out all the time so its trying to go through the start up cycle but it can't. The boiler just keeps doing this all day if you would let it. :evil: Any help would be really greatfull.
     
  8. cappa

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    Sounds like dirty/burnt contacts on one or both of your relays. There are 2 Omron relays with clear plastic covers. Have a look at the PCB board and see if there is any discolouration of the contacts. You can try cleaning them with a contact cleaner strip. Also look for dry joints on your board with a magnifying glass. I actually raplaced my relays which only cost a few quid from RS but you will need a soldering iron and a solder sucker to remove the old relays. I also found about 4 or 5 bad dry joints spread across both my PCB boards but I resoldered them and the boiler is now working fine. Cheers Tony
     
  9. mikaell

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    I had the same problem with my boiler on checking the p c b I found a dry joint the heating works fine now but having problems with the hot water I have put this down to a faulty relay,does anyone know where you can get a 24v orman relays from.Cheers cappa for your help it has saved me £££.Thanks Mike.
     
  10. cappa

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    RS sell the relays for a few quid goto http://rswww.com. CPC may also sell them but I have not checked. Bare in mind though that this mignt not be the cause of your problem. If you get in touch with Ferroli they will send you a PDF version of the Falcon maintenance manual which gives some fault finding tips. The falcon Manual is not available on their web site as it is an older boiler. If you prefer, you can give me your email address and I can forward it onto you. Cheers Tony
     
  11. mikaell

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    Thanks Tony,I have tried to download a manual from Ferroli but no luck.I would be greatful if you would email me the manual.This is my email address.michaelrosson@msn.com thanks Mike
     
  12. djwsuk

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    hi i wonder if you have a copy off the ferroli falcon mk1 manual u could send me .. djwsuk@hotmail.com
     
  13. stewartna77

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    Hi Tony,

    Any chance you can me a copy. I have the same problem. neil77stewart@hotmail.com
     

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