fixed ventilation requirement for gas fire

[ETAF]

A friend of mine has asked me to oversee some work hes having in a flat , which he often rents

boiler change
electrical work etc
and also a
landlords gas safety check - which has done annularly without issues
however, on this occasion, with a different company, the one which fitted the boiler , they failed the gas check because of a gas fire connected to a chimney flue , in the front room, the room needed to have fixed ventilation and they want to install an air brick in the room

He was taking various measurements and said the fire was over 7KW and needed ventilation - just spoken to my friend and he thought it was 3-4kw and wondered how it was measured

its just an old style normal gas fire with 3 bricks at the front style

this has never been a problem or requirement in the past with landlord gas safety checks

I have asked for a quote to do this work and will speak to the owner tomorrow.

Has the law changed, is there an output value of the fire which requires this ventilation ?
wondered why the requirement has changed , so i have the facts when dealing with the company next week

the gas fire passed as did all the other appliances

 

[Phill Peck]

There is a general rule of 7kw but the important factor is the manufacturers instructions. They will tell you if ventilation is required.

If the instructions say it isn't nessisary then obviously it's not
If they say usually not required (which is quite common) aslong ass it passes all safety tests then it's fine

Or they should give a vent size required

The output will be taken from the data badge of the appliance and confirmed and checked by doing a gas rate

If your fire is a DFE (decorative fuel effect) it will require 100cm2 of free air ventilation unless the MIs say otherwise

I have come accross a few 7.2kw fires which is a bit rediculas

 

[ETAF]

thanks
i will see if i can see the older certificates and see what the rating is for

The output will be taken from the data badge of the appliance and confirmed and checked by doing a gas rate

i think it must have been the gas rate check - as it was running for some time along with the boiler and gas hob
in fact the boiler was on during all tests

how do they check the rating - just on a meter reading ?

i will need to go to the site and look at the appliance to see if any rating on it...

 

[45yearsagasman]

its just an old style normal gas fire with 3 bricks at the front style

Can't for the life of me recall any fire of that description that needs external ventilation.

 

[ETAF]

thanks = how do they measure the gas rating - if it was via the gas meter - then the boiler was on all the time (12KW) and calling for heat - as i had everything on maximum to check all the rads and leaks etc

 

[Boilerman2]

When gas rating it is OBVIOUS that only the appliance being rated should be working!!

I agree with my Norfolk Friend 45years most RADIANT gas fires are around the 4Kw mark and therefore should require no further ventilation as long as flue spillage and flow tests are OK - get a 2nd opinion

 

[ETAF]

flue spillage and flow tests are OK - get a 2nd opinion

they said that was OK along with the emissions test

i will talk to the director tomorrow - thanks

 

[gas112]

What make and name is the fire

 

[ETAF]

What make and name is the fire

sorry , i dont know - but i will be there tonight to look it up amongst other things.

i will talk to the plumber today, as i remember the boiler was on all evening and only turned off when we left .

also I spoke to the owner again, and he thinks its about 3-4Kw and has had a few landlord checks over the years with no issues

i'll post the make and model tonight , if its on the fire

 

[FiremanT]

i will talk to the plumber today, as i remember the boiler was on all evening and only turned off when we left .

As said, a gas rate can not be calculated if more than one appliance is on, including pilots. Obviously

also I spoke to the owner again, and he thinks its about 3-4Kw and has had a few landlord checks over the years with no issues

The 3 -4Kw is probably the OUTPUT. The relevant figure is the INPUT, which is likeky to be about 6Kw

How old is the house? New properties normally require a vent regardless of the input.

 

[ETAF]

the flat is quite old , i would guess 50s

they retested yesterday evening - and the fire was 3.3KW
so all passed and sorted

Thanks very much for all your help, I was able to talk to the plumber yesterday morning with confidence and say i thought the fire was between 3-4Kw
etc

 

[FiremanT]

the flat is quite old , i would guess 50s

they retested yesterday evening - and the fire was 3.3KW
so all passed and sorted

Thanks very much for all your help, I was able to talk to the plumber yesterday morning with confidence and say I thought the fire was between 3-4Kw
etc

I don't know of ANY gas fire, except flueless, that is rated that low as an input. Something is not right. What is the make and model.

Even this one has an OUTPUT of 4kw, which is about average:
http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/valor-brava-radiant-outset-gas-fire/

EWithout looking at the MI's, would guess the rating would be 5 - 5.5Kw.

It is interesting that the plumbers tested for gas rate on a fire, with the boiler firing, and when challenged, the rating was retested and turned out to be what you (probably wrongly) thought it should be

 

[ETAF]

ye, that's the type of fire - it was a different plumber who tested, - also I think the last gas check which was carried out by a different company the owner thinks was between 3 & 4 - when hes back we can check the certificate and compare