French Plumbing @ Brazing

[SUPERPLUMBER]

Hi all

Im considering taking a job in france renovating a bathroom for a few weeks but ive read that all copper joints need to be brazed rather that soldered.

can anyone suggest where i can get some brazing rods so i can brush up on my technique? Ive heard of some called SF-2's but cant find em on the internet.

Also, can anyone tell me if the french fittings have a reduced socket depth suitable for brazing rather than soldering.

ta

 

[plumbingnovice17]

y do they need to be brazed cant u just take ur own capilary joints
is it the reg's over there or something?

 

[mrgas]

The French use different size copper tube.10,12,14,16,18,20.Not sure about larger sizes. All threads are however imperial. French fitting look very similar to our end feed fittings and work perfectly well with solder.
havent a clue about french regs apart from you cant use lead.
Who checks anyway?

 

[Norcon]

Rothenberger-Rolot S2 available from.....
http://www.dean-wood.co.uk/?id=43

A higher silver content rod is easier but very expensive.

 

[Agile]

Its very serious to be caught working "on the black" in France.

Untitled

• Agile
• 4 Apr 2009
• 29

You can go to prison.

Tony

 

[SUPERPLUMBER]

LOL.

thanks for your posts, i'll take a look at some of the high silver content rods then. I read somewhere that uk solder fittings have a socket depth of around 10 times the tube thickness, whereas brazing socket depths are much shallower as brazing is a stronger jointing method.

does anyone know if french fittings are specifically for brazing?

 

[Agile]

Looking at the typical French fittings they look pretty much just like ours from memory!

However, the tube sizes fit into each other so you can make up your own couplers!

I will probably be installing a wood burner stove for a friend in France in June/July.

Tony

 

[SUPERPLUMBER]

Are you rigging up your wood burner to your heating system and using old fashioned gravity to circulate your heat?

My GFs parents have a place in burgundy and are considering putting in a woodburner. They have got elecky oil filled rads whcih are really low powered, a couple of KWs at the most and they dont give off enough heat.

 

[mrgas]

SUPERPLUMBER,
I have some brazing rods which are ideal for copper.
I can let you have enough to practice and install a bathroom if you like.
EMail is in my profile.
In our family house in Burgundy I just solder with lead free.

 

[Paul Barker]

SUPERPLUMBER,
I have some brazing rods which are ideal for copper.
I can let you have enough to practice and install a bathroom if you like.
EMail is in my profile.
In our family house in Burgundy I just solder with lead free.

Do you need oxy propane for this braising?

 

[mrgas]

Not for smaller size pipework MAP gas works well using rottenburger blowlamp. Ive only used it on 22mm max. You need to be able to heat copper to cherry red and the braze flows like thick solder. I suspect if you want to braze larger tube you would need to use oxy/gas mix to get enough heat into the work piece. Certainly I saw plumber brazing 63mm copper water mains using large oxy/acetylne torch.
Matt

 

[SUPERPLUMBER]

thanks for the offer mrgas, but ive just ordered some Rothenberger Solder S2 Soldering Rods With Silver. My GFs parents place is near chatillion so ill be guzzling the "cremant" when i get there. its cheap champers but they cant call it that as its not from that region.

anyone got any brazing tricks and tips they wanna share with me?

the internet gurus suggest that the inner of the two tubes to be joined needs to be heated first as the outer one will shield it.

also should i remove the heat from the joint and apply the brazing rod, or continually keep the joint heated till the rod melts.

thanks for all your help and useful information.

SP

 

[Norcon]

The only way to learn brazing is pick up an oxy/acety torch with the correct tip and correct flame and start brazing.
Mapp gas is pretty much useless except for the odd small bore joint where on site access is difficult for the oxy/acety bottles IMO.

 

[Agile]

thanks for the offer mrgas, but ive just ordered some Rothenberger Solder S2 Soldering Rods With Silver.
thanks for all your help and useful information.

SP

That sounds like silver solder!

I think that normal pipe brazing is with brass likel brazing rods which are much cheaper.

After my limited playing about with brazing, I found that the flux used and when you apply it is the most important aspect.

Best to practice a little here first before you make un imbécile of yourself.

Tony

 

[Norcon]

If your using flux on copper to copper then that's the wrong rod.
Silver Free Alloys - phosphorus content 6 - 8%
Silver Bearing Alloys 1 - 15% silver

The phosphorus content serves as a “self-fluxing” agent in joining copper to copper.
For many years the standard of the industry, the 15% silver alloy has proven its value. This filler metal is excellent for situations in which close fit-up does not exist, and where agitation and vibration in service are involved.