Help with Kitchen / Dining room floor

[JayW]

Hi guys

Really in a pickle here and looking for the best solution.

We want vinyl flooring throughout the kitchen / diner but the current floor which is made up of these cheap thin tiles (possibly asbestos but not sure) and some have lifted and in general the floor isn't ready for vinyl just yet.

I thought I could lift the problem tiles and fill with a product like Mapei screed which I have tried and has mostly worked. Problem is there are still high edges in places and now others need sorted and I'd rather just sort the whole lot and get a uniform finish.

Under the tiles is about an inch of substrate and then a concrete base.

I need the dining room and kitchen to be same level and the cabinets are already in place which makes it awkward.

I was thinking about getting a quote on a full screed just on top of these tiles but not sure how much that's gonna cost if I get someone in, or if it would work as if some of the tiles have movement then surly a thin screed would crack?

I also need to keep in mind I have small IKEA plinths to go on and don't want to reduce this space more by over boarding etc.

Any ideas appreciated!

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[JayW]

I've been doing more thinking (probably not a good thing) but I'm thinking about lifting the few problematic thermoplastic tiles and then removing some of the sand substrate (not sure why it's so soft in parts?) Then use 400 mortor to fill in the holes and then prime and go over the whole kitchen / diner with stopgap 700 or arditex NA?

I don't really want to remove all of the tiles everywhere as the majority of the room is level and solid. It's just the odd ones that have lifted slightly causing a lip or where I've tried to patch up and it's not quite flush.

As my kitchen is in though it would mean just letting the SLC go under the cabinets slightly enough to sit the plinths on, only problem with that is its going to bond to the cabinet feet.

I'm also questioning weather I have the ability to use SLC over the whole room and get a good finish as £25-£40 a bag of 20kg then added primer for a roughly 12m2 room is going to be and expensive mistake if I don't get it right.

 

[dazlight]

You need to start be removing all the tiles then have a clean up and see what you have everywhere.
Does the floor have a existing DPM?

 

[JayW]

You need to start be removing all the tiles then have a clean up and see what you have everywhere.
Does the floor have a existing DPM?

Hi

I would say no, I'm no expert but as the house is from 1930's and at the minute there is no skirting and I can't see any type of membrane around the edge.

Taking all of the tiles up is the last thing I want to do tbh, at the minute apart from the odd place the floor is sound, the kitchen diner is also the same level. I would be unable to remove most tiles in kitchen due to cabinets and so maintaining a uniform level throughout will be hard.

Is there ane fabric / membrane available which would go down first before vinyl that would mask these little imperfections? I really need a quick cheap solution as we have already ordered the vinyl to be fitted which I'm now going to have to cancel / extend.

 

[dazlight]

You can't out a liquid DPM over them tiles.
You could use f ball isolator membrane over the floor before vinyl.

 

[JayW]

You can't out a liquid DPM over them tiles.
You could use f ball isolator membrane over the floor before vinyl.

Thanks for the reply.

If I am leaving the tiles down which have bitumin underneath then I didn't think I would need a DPM?

That isolator membrane costs more than I thought! Plus it says the floor should be level so not sure how well it would hide the imperfections I've got?

Looking at arditex NA it looks like it would be a perfect solution, the kitchen tiles are solid and can't see me ever having a problem with movement there. The only issue is the dining room where a few are loose / lifting at edges.

If I could patch up the loose ones like I've done to a few already then arditex NA the whole lot it would make life a lot easier.

 

[JayW]

I could lift the tiles In dining room but would a full covering of SLC adhere to the substrate below as it's soft in places as when you lift the tiles they pull some of the surface off.

The Mapei i poored seems to have stuck well so I could do this to it all and somehow try and meet the kitchen tiles and keep those ones down. I think I could get away with vinyl straight on top of these as they are sound, 10x better than dining room.

 

[JayW]

Still need help with this.

Had a flooring guy come round who specialises in kardean and screeding floor etc. Said its best to lift the tiles, install dpm and then latex over.

I haven't received a quote yet but he was saying the dpm alone is about £180 a unit and it's possible I'll need two.

I'm still weighing up doing the work myself but as it's going to be quite pricy I need to be confident Its going to work.

Would gluing 6mm ply directly onto marley tiles be a suitable solution?

If not then is this correct... -

1. Lift tiles
2. Remove beutimin where needed.
3. Sweep / hoover floor and loose material (previous screed is quite poor in places and just crumbles)
4. Prime with f ball p131
5. Apply f ball f76
6. Prime again
7. Apply a self leveling compound

Area is roughly 20m2 and I'll only be doing just upto kitchen cabinet plinths. I just don't know if I'm confident enough to achieve a good finish as its across a kitchen, dining room and utility that needs doing and that's a lot of work if it all needs doing in one run.

I'm hoping I get a quote soon and if it's on the right side of 600 I'll be happy to with that...

 

[dazlight]

You can't prime under a DPM.
10kg of Ardex DPM1c should do 20m2 costing about £150 ish
I'd go with Uzin PE404. 2 coats of that.

 

[JayW]

Thanks

Do you think it would work if I kept the tiles down in the kitchen which are very solid but lifted the dining room. Then ardex NA dining room up to level of tiles in kitchen. Then prime dining room and ardex the whole lot to get one uniform level as it says it can be applied to tiles.

Only thing is id still need to dpm dining room which is only a small area. Wouldn't dpm kitchen if leaving tiles down.

 

[JayW]

Any idea regarding Ardex NA and the kitchen tiles?

I'm also unsure weather to screed first then apply dpm then a further screed, or dpm straight onto subfloor after a good hoover then one screed coat.

One of the reasons I also want to leave the tiles in the kitchen as apart from being down solid the kitchen units are also already in place so if removing tiles and applying dpm I'd only be doing the walkable area and so half the kitchen would be untreated so I don't see the point in having half the room with dpm.

If I only lift the tiles in the dining room then I can get away with a smaller dpm unit which will be cheaper.

 

[JayW]

Right little update.

I've had two guys in to look at the job and both have quoted on removing tiles, adding dpm and then screeding.

One quote was £650 and the other was £695

This is more than I was hoping for so I'm back to thinking about sorting it myself. I'm aware of the costs involved to get someone in to do it correctly but due to new born twins this isn't an option for the next 6+ months.

Looking at the below photos it shows what is under the tiles, the bitumen comes up very easy in places. After a clean the surface is hard although still quite sandy.

Would adding ardex NA direct to a swept/hooverd subfloor like this be ok or would it be advisable to prime first to avoid pinholing? I would use a spiked roller.

Also as the ardex NA is moisture tolerant can someone let me know the consequences of not adding a dpm? We only plan on staying here another 3 years. If I added a dpm it would mean adding an extra £150 for dpm and also doubling the amount of slc to buy as I would screed first then dpm then screed.

Alternatively is there any cheaper slc that would do the job just as good? Levelflex? Only reason I'm leaning towards ardex is I wouldn't have to remove all bitumen.

Many thanks.

 

[chappers]

levelflex is good over bitumen as is flexilevel both about £15 a bag just that flexilevel is a 25kg bag. http://www.tilemasteradhesives.co.uk/

 

[dazlight]

No way is Levelflex good over bitumin. No water mix is!! Some say it will go over but read the small print.

Other screeds I would use instead of Ardex NA are Uzin gold to f ball stopgap 1200 pro
You still need to remove tiles and any loose bitumin.

Also a moisture tolerance screed just means it lets water pass through so can go under a liquid DPM.
It's not a DPM.
If you looking to save money why not put a laminate down for now with a moisture barrier underlay.

 

[chappers]

Not having a pop, just genuinely asking, I have never laid anything over bitumen, but TA's technical sheet says it's fine and gives very specific priming instructions. I have always found TA's technical instructions and their tech support to be spot on.
I was under the impression that in two part latex screeds, the liquid was essentially latex in water with a few other minor additives mainly added to aid mixing.
Is it a matter of adhesion as Ardex has a rating of CT-25-F5 and levelflex CT-30-F7 so has more strength and greater flexibility