HETAS - a licence to print money?

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17 Dec 2012
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Dorset
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Recently had a twin wall flue installed on a new Morso S10-40 by a Hetas "engineer". I have been involved in the building trade for the best part of 50 years but went the Hetas route to short cut the process for a Christmas deadline. I don't think I have ever witnessed a worse bodge in all my years in the trade. I was quoted £1200 to supply 2 metres of twin wall and 1.4 metres of 6" stove pipe (we live in a bungalow). Two cowboys turned up with very little in the way of tools or equipment and proceeded to completely ignore the Morso manual which stresses the need to support the flue and NOT let the stove take the weight. At the end of the day I was left with the entire flue system swinging free on top of the stove without the benefit of a single support anywhere. The flashing where the flue penetrates the tiled roof consisted of a mangled piece of tin and several tubes of mastic to cover the bodge. I spent a day removing the whole mess, purchasing new tiles to replaced the smashed ones and installing a proper weathered flashing which, unlike the "Hetas" one, doesn't leak like a sieve. I have not paid anything to date but feel justified in paying for the (inferior) material supplied only as I have effectively had to do the job myself. I have purchased two supports to complete the install correctly.
What concerns me most if the whole Hetas cartel which is basically self regulating and therefore an open invitation for abuse by cowboys. What is the point of Document "J" if the "experts" ignore it completely and nobody checks that they are doing their job properly. It's just another of example of a bureaucratic band aid that does nothing to ensure safe, quality work. Of course, the authorities cover themselves by making a CO2 monitor mandatory - presumably to at least save the lives of the unfortunate members of the public who put their trust in a system which is fatally flawed.
 
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Did you check their credentials? It isn't unknown for cowboys to lie!
 
Being a HETAS "engineer" is the latest shammer like spray foam, roof tile cleaning, damp injection, drive cleaning, shake and bake plasterer etc.

Any old dick made redundant from a factory can become an engineer after a tuppeny - ha'penny course.

If there is a band waggon ride with easy money on the way, then the unscrupulous will exploit it.

Fools and pensioners are the first suckers in the firing line.
 
As somebody who gets on a lot of roofs I have seen some of the work close up and some of it has been shocking. I have asked the customer if they have had a new stove fitted and how much and it is and it is always a fortune, and the crazy thing is most of the time the houses were built for real fires.
 
Nose and Cat - you guys are so right - and it`s yet another nail in the Plumbers coffin :evil: Used to do s/f fires + boilers back in the day
 
Im sorry to hear of your problems , im hetas reg and do belive you should complain and also ring building regs as the minimum length for a flue sor wood or solid fuel is 4.5 meters anf yours sounds short to me so get it checked has could be dangerous.
 
Becomming an hetas engineer is not somthing you get out of a cracker, it takes a few thousand pound and lots of training also usually another disaplin , mine looks like this cityand guilds plumbing aapprenticeship 3 years on £28.50 per week corgi gas course £2000 3 reassessment s £900 each commercial gas course £1300 25 YEARS TOTAL EXPERIENCE and heatas course £1200 plus£400 reg fee .then anuaal reg fees pluss higher public liability insurance and people on here call us scammers.plus the possabillity of prison if you make a mistake as both are covered by criminal law. YOU Only hear of bad jobs on here but thousandsnof people have stoves fitted correctly every week. The fitting of stoves is more critical than gas appliances . gas gives off virtually no carbon monoxide when burnt but wood gives off 40000 parts per million when burned two good mouth fulls of that kills. People think it just consists of fitting a liner, not only are these people stuipid but ignorant . Stoves have to be sized acording to the roon in which there fitted , ventilation must be sised correcly , too small carbon monoxide too large and you can end up with your stove pulling heat out of your house. Are there fans in other rooms , tumble dryers that can effect flue performance. Not to count negitive and possative pressure zones round the house.Fabric the flues made of , size of opening size of stove distances to combustabes , flue access size of constuctional hearth , size of decorative hearth .condesate free length of flue . Terminal etc . Plus then I have instruct customer in how to use , not just a matter of lighting , correct use of primary and secondry airports can save lots of wasted heat and money. Carbonmonoxide alarms correct placment. Wood moisture and drying .then take the responsibility of every ones life in that property on my back for next year.
 
We are in the middle of an installation.

Here is the reply from the Hetas engineer who thinks that a stove providing no heat into the room except what comes from a smoking up glass front, is fit for purpose. :



'You can tell Mrs Whittaker that we have installed thousands of stoves. In the last year we have fitted 1500 stoves, 400 of those being insets. Out of those 400, 5 have needed the extra vermiculite pouring down the chimney. The vermiculite is not a regulation and is recommended after installation if needed.

The installation is fit for purpose, the certificate of compliance has been signed off.

We do not follow manufacturers recommendations as they vary so much, this is why we have HETAS, these are the only regulations we have to adhere to for the installation to be passed.

The stove was installed using vermiculite insulation sheets between the breezeblocks and stove, there is no void to the bottom, back or sides as this stove. The vermiculite we can pour in will sit on top of the stove.

We have completed the contract agreed and are awaiting payment. As mentioned we can pour the vermiculite in if you wish. '


No fire was lit as part of the commissioning and hence no pressure test. The pots weren't checked prior to installing the flue so now it protrudes at about 30 to vertcal.

Note : 'we do not follow manufacturers reccommendations' !!

There you have it
 
We are in the middle of an installation.

Here is the reply from the Hetas engineer who thinks that a stove providing no heat into the room except what comes from a smoking up glass front, is fit for purpose. :



'You can tell Mrs Whittaker that we have installed thousands of stoves. In the last year we have fitted 1500 stoves, 400 of those being insets. Out of those 400, 5 have needed the extra vermiculite pouring down the chimney. The vermiculite is not a regulation and is recommended after installation if needed.

The installation is fit for purpose, the certificate of compliance has been signed off.

We do not follow manufacturers recommendations as they vary so much, this is why we have HETAS, these are the only regulations we have to adhere to for the installation to be passed.

The stove was installed using vermiculite insulation sheets between the breezeblocks and stove, there is no void to the bottom, back or sides as this stove. The vermiculite we can pour in will sit on top of the stove.

We have completed the contract agreed and are awaiting payment. As mentioned we can pour the vermiculite in if you wish. '


No fire was lit as part of the commissioning and hence no pressure test. The pots weren't checked prior to installing the flue so now it protrudes at about 30 to vertcal.

Note : 'we do not follow manufacturers reccommendations' !!

There you have it

Manufacturers instructions usually overide everything else, I'd ask for a HETAS inspection, the flue pressure test is carried out before installation not after.
 
Inset stoves lose most of their heat up the chimney.
Bad choice.

The best wood stoves are ceiling suspended in the centre of the room on long revolving flues as most of their heat passes to the space.
The closest you will get to a camp fire inside a home.
 
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