Hiring Electrician for Minor Works - What Qualifications?

[mevtickin3]

Hi guys, quick sense check please.
I'd like to hire an electrician to add a couple of additional sockets at my house (1 external, 1 in a cloak room with toilet/sink)

Is it ok to proceed if they have not yet registered with a government approved scheme (just set up business, was previously working for another company), but have NAPIT Periodic Inspection and Testing, 17th Ed., NVQ 3 Electrical installation services, JIB, AM2, IPAF, ECS/CSCS, Level 2 & 3 Electrotechnical installation?

The electrician has confirmed they will complete a minor works electrical certificate for the work.

It's pretty confusing, and I want to make sure that everything is good before going ahead.

Thanks!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes.

There is no need to register to do that kind of work - in England.

In Wales they would need to notify - to fit the outside socket. It's not supposed to make sense.

 

[Iggifer]

The thing I'd be looking at is their public liability insurance.

If they're qualified but not in a scheme, you want some protection should anything go wrong

 

[flameport]

government approved scheme (just set up business, was previously working for another company), but have NAPIT Periodic Inspection and Testing, 17th Ed., NVQ 3 Electrical installation services, JIB, AM2, IPAF, ECS/CSCS, Level 2 & 3 Electrotechnical installation?

None of that really means anything - it's not compulsory to belong to any scheme, or to have any qualifications of any kind.
The presence of pieces of paper does not automatically mean that you will get a decent job done, and the lack of them doesn't have to imply a poor job either.

The various schemes cover next to nothing in the event of problems.

Insurance is for the benefit of the trader and is only there to cover disaster situations such as your house burning down or people being injured. The idea being that the insurance company deals with the years of wrangling over who pays for what, and the trader does not have to.

 

[ericmark]

My son was working as a sole trader at the time Part P first came in. He was doing mainly shops, and as such did not need to be a scheme member, but did do the odd domestic, where he found the problem was when he intended to do a minor bit of work, but when doing the job is escalated into a more major job. The major problem was suddenly because it became notifiable the cost jumped by £150 to get the LABC to inspect and issue the completion certificate.

He started to reject domestic work as a result, it is surprising how many simple jobs, when over the demarcation line and became notifiable. In England the rules are no so strict as in Wales, and so less likely to become notifiable, but the major question to ask is if it does become notifiable what will you and the electrician do? If you are both willing to turn a blind eye, then maybe it's OK, but if either of you are not willing to do that, then your looking at an extra £200.

In general in England if it only needs a minor works certificate then you don't need to notify the LABC, however if it needs an installation certificate then it does need notifying, now there is nothing to stop an electrician doing emergency work without notifying LABC first, however they still need notifying so the electrician would make out the installation certificate and pass on a copy to you, and you would need to take it to LABC and pay the fee. The problem is the electrician has no idea if you actually submit the work to LABC or not, I noted this when doing work for my father, the certificate was sent to him, but nothing was sent to me as the electrician.

I thought the whole system was flawed, the owner should contact the LABC and they should issue a permit to work, which is passed to the electrician before he starts. But this is not the case, so if the electrician says he issued an installation certificate for the owner to submit to LABC, then it would be near impossible to show the electrician knew he was doing something illegal, so for an electrician to issue minor works or installation certificate he is showing he has done everything he can to comply with the law. However if he fails to issue them, then he is showing he knew the work was in some way non compliant, so leaving himself open to court.

When we (dad and I) contacted the LABC to say we were taking over the job, we were told it was down to the owner to inform the LABC, although most builders will do it for the home owner, it is down to the owner to make sure it is done. So electrician has no worries if some thing does happen to mean it needs the LABC to be notified, it's not his problem, it's the home owners problem.

 

[mevtickin3]

Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated.
There is verified public liability in place (1m), so that's covered.

It's a good point about a minor work turning into notifiable work, so appreciate the heads up.

In this instance, a socket needs adding right next to the main fuse board, so I was assuming the electrician would connect into that in some way.
The other socket is external, and would likely spur off/replace an existing unused rotary isolator that runs back on a separate circuit to the fuse board (uses armoured cable) and is 20amp rated I think.

Is that all ok under minor works?

Many thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Assuming you live in England:
Minor work, unless carried out in a special location do not require a notification application to building controls.
The areas that generally require notification are new/change of consumer unit, new circuits and new electrical installation within the bathroom zones.

Some minor works do require notification.

If your electrician has the quals and experience you state. They should know this? If they do not? I suggest staying clear of them.

 

[JohnW2]

If your electrician has the quals and experience you state. They should know this? If they do not? I suggest staying clear of them.

It sounds from the OP as if the electrician is fully aware of all this, and is satisfied that he can do the work (without the need for notification) - I think it's just that the OP wants reassurance that this is all correct and "OK".

Kind Regards, John

 

[mevtickin3]

It sounds from the OP as if the electrician is fully aware of all this, and is satisfied that he can do the work (without the need for notification) - I think it's just that the OP wants reassurance that this is all correct and "OK".

Kind Regards, John

Thanks right, just after reassurance that I understand the process and where the boundary is for minor works, so I'm informed. To confirm this is work in England.

The external circuit has a Hager C32 NC132 RCD, and wanted to check that putting a socket on this circuit was ok (is not classsd as new circuit)

Secondly that putting a socket close to (connecting to) the fuseboard was ok as minor works, as opposed to spurring off an existing socket.

Thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

A C32 NC132 is not a RCD but a type C, MCB. Is this circuit covered by a RCD? Are any of the circuits being worked on protected by a RCD?
If the new socket being installed at/nearby the consumer unit is not to be spurred of an existing circuit or extended from one (which it can be at the board). It would be deemed a new circuit.

As I mentioned, these are all things your electrician should know. We can only reassure you that it is possible to do, under minor works, if a new circuit is not installed, but not that your electrician is competent to carry them out. The quals would suggest they are, but it would depend on their previous working experience and knowledge in this type of work.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thanks right, just after reassurance that I understand the process and where the boundary is for minor works, so I'm informed.

There is no boundary as such.

The type of certificate is nothing to do with whether the work is notifiable or not and vice versa.

Having said that, since the relaxation of the notifiable work to just the present three cases, it is true that notifiable work will more often than not result in an Electrical Installation Certificate, but that is not because it is notifiable.

 

[JohnW2]

Having said that, since the relaxation of the notifiable work to just the present three cases, it is true that notifiable work will more often than not result in an Electrical Installation Certificate, but that is not because it is notifiable.

Whilst that is almost always going to be a case for two of the three things which remain notifiable (CU replacement and installation of a new circuit), I'm not so sure about the third, are you? - i.e. work in the zones of a bathroom [if it does not involve new circuit(s)].

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Not sure I understand correctly -

You don't have to issue an EIC because it is notifiable and an MEIWC because it is not.

 

[JohnW2]

Not sure I understand correctly - You don't have to issue an EIC because it is notifiable and an MEIWC because it is not.

Indeed you don't. I was just suggesting some clarification for the OP, since I'm far from convinced that (notifiable) work in bathroom zones (e.g. adding a fan in the zones, using an existing circuit) would "more often than not" require an EIC - or would you perhaps issue an EIC for such a job?

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

I think he meant notifiable work in general John, not that all 3 categories of minor work would each more often need an EIC. I think you're both in agreement on that technicality!