Insurance company, heating would not turn on. Won't fix it!

Wow I've hit a nerve where the insurance company is concerned yippee!! :D

I’ll be back home in the next hour or so, not for long though, so let me know if anyone wants me to do anything. I'll reply to the other "can you check/do" this in a mo.

I will indeed go back to the insurance company on Monday and will let you know their response. In the meantime I will need a plan b as it needs to be ok by Thursday.

What IS and IS NOT covered:

This only applies if you have chosen to include this
cover and this is shown on your Policy Schedule.
This section provides assistance if you or any
member of your family have a home emergency
and you phone the home emergency helpline.
We will arrange to deal with the emergency by
choosing a qualified person to come to your
home and carry out any repairs that are necessary
as a result of that home emergency.
Words with special meaning are printed in bold
type on pages 13-14 and below. In this section of
the policy we/us/our means Inter Partner
Assistance. The policy limits are shown on page 19.
Home Emergency words
with special meanings
Home Emergency
A sudden event that was not expected by any
of your family and which needs immediate
action to:
• make the home safe or secure
• avoid damage or more damage to
your home
• make your home fit to live in
• restore electricity, gas or water services
to your home if they have totally failed
What IS covered
1. A home emergency that you or any member
of your family tells us about.
2. In the event of the property becoming
uninhabitable and remaining so overnight,
we shall at your request arrange and pay
for your overnight accommodation and/or
transport to such accommodation,
up to £100.

What IS NOT covered
A fault any member of your family knew or
should have known about when you took out
the policy.
Any claim if your home is unoccupied.
Any claim if your mains electricity, water or
gas supply fails or is deliberately cut off by
any electricity, water or gas supply company.
Any deliberate act of any public or local
authority service.
Any deliberate act or omission by any
member of your family, in an attempt to
make a false or fraudulent claim under
this section.
Any claim which is covered by a maintenance
agreement, guarantee or extended warranty
contract.
Any claim because your central heating boiler
fails and it is over 15 years old.
Solar heating, septic tanks, guttering
and downpipes.
Breakdown or loss of, or damage to, domestic
appliances like freezers, washing machines,
microwaves or other mechanical equipment
such as Saniflow toilets.
Any loss where you did not contact us to
arrange repairs.
Any loss or damage arising from subsidence
caused by bedding down of new structures,
repairs or alterations to the property, faulty
workmanship, or use of defective materials,
river or coastal erosion.
Any defect, damage or failure caused by
interference, negligence, misuse, or faulty
workmanship, including any attempted repair
or modification which does not comply with
recognised industry standards.
Any leaking or dripping tap that requires
re-washering or replacing, external overflows
or replacement of cylinders, tanks, radiators
and sanitary ware.
Any burst or leaking flexible hoses which can
be isolated or leaking washing appliances.
De-scaling and any work arising from hard
water scale deposits or from damage caused
by aggressive water or sludge resulting from
corrosion. Signs that work is needed may
include a noisy boiler, sludged up pipes or
poor circulation.
Replacement of light bulbs and fuses in plugs.
Lost keys for outbuildings, garages and sheds.
Vermin outside the main dwelling
e.g. garages and other outbuildings.

How we settle claims
for Section 5:
Home Emergency
The most we will pay for any one claim is up to
£500 (including VAT) towards the cost of the
qualified person who we choose to deal with
the home emergency, in respect of the call out
charge, labour and any materials that are
necessary, plus up to £100 towards alternative
accommodation.
If you have a home emergency and you claim
under this section and you have buildings
insurance, we can ask your buildings insurers
to pay back any money we have paid.
 
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Remove the valve head from the body, run CH and check white plastic bush under the valve head for movement. If it moves, then there is nothing wrong with the controls. If it does not, post back for further help unless a perfectly good setup (not understood by the black knight with light saber) is to be ripped out.

Do I need to do this if the below is not working...

How do you know actuator is not TRYING to turn the spindle?
As for electronics, relay is almost bombproof what it has to do

When we hit the controls to turn on the water/heating etc, I'm upstairs listing and visually looking at the actuator. As its already of the valve its easy to inspect/verify
 
Presuming the fuse on the board has been checked I imagine your guy is saying the relay is shot...

I think that is highly likely and the relay looks like a standard plug in type that should only cost a few pounds.

sparkyshark, are there any markings on the relay, it looks like 240v and the diagram shows three double pole c/o contacts. Could you unplug it and take some more pics.

I'll take a few more pic's - but it looks like its 240V by looking closer at the small clear square plastic case on the left. Its imprinted AC240V.
 
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have you done as suggested by DP, to confirm if its electric side or just the valve body
 
Did this system ever work properly? The wiring does not look correct and it is very common to find actuators sitting on the floor and the spindles operated manually.

Links A&B have been cut indicating a programmer is fitted.

What timeclock/programmer do you have?



Pin 7 (Programmer CH on) is connected

Pin 18 (Programmer HW off) has NOT been connected

Pin 20 (programmer HW on) is connected

Pin 19 (programmer live feed) is connected

Pin 17 (programmer neutral feed) has NOT been connected



I find 75% of 3 port valve setups do not work and have NEVER worked properly from the day they were installed...the wiring is too complicated for installers/diyers/sparks etc.

Was the motorised head actually connected to the valve body? Usual evidence of water leaks around the spindle normally means the valve is seized up.


The setup looks over 15 years old so would not be covered, likewise if its not wired up correctly thats not covered either. Insurance companies never check out the systems properly before taking them on so disputes inevitably arise. If they did the checks the premiums would have to be much higher to fully cover the system (many just aren't insurable)...better to blag the customer into a policy and give em the small print when problems arise.



Does the valve body spindle turn?

If it is the relay it's easy to test and bound to be standard type from Maplin/Farnell etc

For a programmer needs 5 wires to work correctly with a mid position valve.
 
Sorry guys I'v been out with no internet access.

I'll send a pic of the electronic programmer and a few more pic's of the valve from the side view.

I replaced the fuse, with a dud (not on purpose) nothing worked put back the fuse & everything worked so not a dead fuse.

Interestingly I took the actuator apart and its definitely broken, pieces were inside the case also. The good thing is it’s got power to it, but I guess because its broken it’s not working, it was vibrating....

Did it ever work properly – it must have at one point, I don’t recall the heating coming on when the water was on. Whatever the status and with you bright chaps I’m sure I’ll nail the B.
 
I have looked at those words from the policy and combined it with the information given to me with requests I have had to provide help to those insurance firms.

The cover described to me on heating and plumbing is limited to making the system safe and stopping leaks UNLESS there is a good prospect of making it work within about 30 minutes and without much expenditure on new parts.

Tony
 
I have looked at those words from the policy and combined it with the information given to me with requests I have had to provide help to those insurance firms.

The cover described to me on heating and plumbing is limited to making the system safe and stopping leaks UNLESS there is a good prospect of making it work within about 30 minutes and without much expenditure on new parts.

Tony

Still going to complain though, at a minimum they should have replaced the valve & actuator I think.

I got a call from them today and explained that the plumber was wrong – they said to complain I would need a report. These guys have their angles covered. Why does the policy give a limit of £500 per emergency then? That’s plenty to make it right. Moan moan.
 
Its not £500 for each incident!

The cover is an "emergency cover" and thats to make any emergency situation safe!

The £500 might be required if your chimney stack blew over and crashed through your roof.

Its NOT intended as a heating repair service! The wording and sales promotion should make that adequately clear. They usually say that you have to have the heating serviced every year !

Tony
 
Back from SUNVIC.

The system you have is our relay junction box, motor on / motor off actuator. The label in the box (437-2-852) which indicates a plug in actuator type DM 5651.

Parts for this system are still currently available, but we will be making it obsolete in the future. Your options are to replace the actuator DM 5651 if you reckon that’s the problem, or fit a new valve, actuator and wiring centre

surely more leverage for the insurance company!
 
or just buy yourself a DM 5651 and stop grumbling?
 
For what its worth, you might aswell fit a standard spring return and a normal junction box, cost about the same as the actuator you need. Bit more labour intensive, bit of rewiring&plumbing, but has to be worth it for future maintenance.
 
For what its worth, you might aswell fit a standard spring return and a normal junction box, cost about the same as the actuator you need. Bit more labour intensive, bit of rewiring&plumbing, but has to be worth it for future maintenance.

Sunvic have said if I want to re-do it go for the below.

http://www.sunvic.co.uk/ucsp.htm

Easiest option is replace the Actuator, but if this fails then I've wasted my money on it.

Also if the wiring doesn't look right as "gasguru" has mentioned. This could also be a waste of time.

The next best option is replace the lot.

Can I remove the valve without draining the system? I need to decide and place an order tonight.

Cheers.
 
If you decide to go with a Honeywell mid position valve make sure you have 5 wires running to the programmer (thats Live/Neutral and THREE "control" wires) otherwise you won't have full control.

And you will need a drain down to replace the complete valve.

Have you checked the spindle turns freely? If it's seized they have a habit of leaking as soon as they're disturbed. This and the programmer wiring is the deciding point.
 

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