your words not mine
i dont know what happened anymore than anyone else i am not going to start speculating
Is it time to to ban vintage air shows?
- Thread starter FiremanT
- Start date
i dont know what happened anymore than anyone else i am not going to start speculating
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Stating he did a loop the loop over a busy road is not speculating.
he was doing a loop the loop that finished on the road was that his intention 
or was the loop started fully clear but went wrong and finished on the road
as in planned to fully finish never near the sky over the road
or was the loop started fully clear but went wrong and finished on the road
as in planned to fully finish never near the sky over the road
You're missing the point that he shouldn't have been doing that manoeuvre anywhere near a busy road. He should have made sure that if it did go wrong there was no possibility of him killing others as he did.
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with respect you are missing the point
you seem to be assuming he meant to be near the busy road
i am suggesting that wasnt his intention as per my last post ??
may be my last line edit on the last post causing the confusion
"
"
Are you? I thought you weren't going to speculate.
Given that air shows have to pass risk assessments to get signed off (by the CAA) to go ahead at all, I expect that the pilot may have submitted documents or the like, that he would be doing a loop-the-loop. Doubtful that the pilot is permitted to "wing it", so to speak.
Also, from the CAA Guide for Display Pilots.....
planning your display
Your sequence of manoeuvres should be constructed with a focus on the objective of your display, i.e. to entertain the public. Your workload to
achieve this should always be well below 100% of your capacity in the aircraft you are flying and whatever the prevailing conditions (weather plus how
much sleep, food etc you have had). You should always plan to have spare capacity to deal with the unexpected. It is important that you have
constructive and critical comment during your display planning and workup from an experienced display pilot who is preferably a Display Authorisation Evaluator experienced on your type of aircraft. Choose someone with whom you have a good rapport, mutual trust and respect. Then heed the advice given.
developing your display routine
You should remember the following:
l
The most important single factor is safety
l
The spectators should be able to see the whole of your display
l
Select manoeuvres that:
3
impress the knowledgeable,
entertain the airshow aficionado,
educate the casual spectator and
frighten no one, particularly
yourself...
l
Are well within your own and your aircraft’s capability
l
Can be safely flown at low level
l
Show your aircraft to its best advantage
l
Minimise flying straight and level between manoeuvres
l
Reduce the risk of crashing towards the crowd e.g. with a barrel roll
started parallel to the crowd the direction of roll should be towards the
crowd leaving the aircraft going away from the crowd in the second –
more dangerous – part of the manoeuvre.
l
‘Display the aeroplane, not yourself.’
Developing a display sequence depends, to a great extent, on the type of
aircraft being flown, what type of manoeuvres the aircraft is cleared for and
the aircraft’s power to weight ratio.
For example, a high per
for
mance jet fighter
, such as the Hunter
, has little
difficulty sustaining, or regaining, speed and/or altitude during a low level
display. The same cannot be said of a Chipmunk, and a different approach
needs to be taken when planning a display for such dif
fer
ent types.
Also, from the CAA Guide for Display Pilots.....
planning your display
Your sequence of manoeuvres should be constructed with a focus on the objective of your display, i.e. to entertain the public. Your workload to
achieve this should always be well below 100% of your capacity in the aircraft you are flying and whatever the prevailing conditions (weather plus how
much sleep, food etc you have had). You should always plan to have spare capacity to deal with the unexpected. It is important that you have
constructive and critical comment during your display planning and workup from an experienced display pilot who is preferably a Display Authorisation Evaluator experienced on your type of aircraft. Choose someone with whom you have a good rapport, mutual trust and respect. Then heed the advice given.
developing your display routine
You should remember the following:
l
The most important single factor is safety
l
The spectators should be able to see the whole of your display
l
Select manoeuvres that:
3
impress the knowledgeable,
entertain the airshow aficionado,
educate the casual spectator and
frighten no one, particularly
yourself...
l
Are well within your own and your aircraft’s capability
l
Can be safely flown at low level
l
Show your aircraft to its best advantage
l
Minimise flying straight and level between manoeuvres
l
Reduce the risk of crashing towards the crowd e.g. with a barrel roll
started parallel to the crowd the direction of roll should be towards the
crowd leaving the aircraft going away from the crowd in the second –
more dangerous – part of the manoeuvre.
l
‘Display the aeroplane, not yourself.’
Developing a display sequence depends, to a great extent, on the type of
aircraft being flown, what type of manoeuvres the aircraft is cleared for and
the aircraft’s power to weight ratio.
For example, a high per
for
mance jet fighter
, such as the Hunter
, has little
difficulty sustaining, or regaining, speed and/or altitude during a low level
display. The same cannot be said of a Chipmunk, and a different approach
needs to be taken when planning a display for such dif
fer
ent types.
L
longdogs
All the news channels say the pilot is 'known locally' as Andy Hill. I wonder what he is known as in other areas?
Looking at that image it is easy to blame the pilot for choosing an unsafe path. dangerous manoeuvres mean a risk of unexpected results and potentially uncontrollable events. Loop the loop manoeuvres are known to cause a risk of stalling if carried out improperly (and I speak as a keyboard warrior with little knowledge, event organisers would have known of this risk)
But I don't blame the pilot.
The airfield is surrounded by urban sprawl and motorways. General landing and taking off would not pose an existential threat, as procedures are set up so that incidents are unlikely to cause planes to plough through inhabited land. Those procedures exist for a reason, and someone decided that a loop the loop and other such manoeuvres would be an acceptably low risk.
Technically that was correct, the risk of something happening was extremely low, like playing a reverse lottery.
Not much of a prize.
If that blue line had gone up to twice as high before the loop for instance there probably wouldn't have been a problem. But then it wouldn't have looked anywhere near as spectacular for the spectators.
I suppose that's the balance they're trying to achieve, make it look good while keeping it safe.
Like you say we're all clueless about these things really, but obviously someone fcked up that balance, and the pilot is the guy who's flying the thing.
I suppose that's the balance they're trying to achieve, make it look good while keeping it safe.
Like you say we're all clueless about these things really, but obviously someone fcked up that balance, and the pilot is the guy who's flying the thing.
Informed sources are saying that the plane appears to have suffered engine failure or a flame out. If this happened during the climb into the loop then the plane may not have reached the necessary height to be able to "glide" ( unpowered ) out of the loop with enough height left to glide to the runway for an emergency landing.
Jet fighters generally are not able to glide, as this makes them inherently more stable (and therefore, less agile) in a combat situation.
Whether this is the case for a Hunter, I have no idea.
Whether this is the case for a Hunter, I have no idea.
That line is blue, Sooey - no piloting for you!
Provided they have sufficient air speed they can fly in a "glide" mode. Loosing the propulsion unit means they lose air speed quickly if they try and fly level.
That said you are right in that most modern fighters are un stable. some are so unstable that it is beyond a pilot's ability to fly them without the computorised control systems that keep the plane flying in the direction the pilot directs it to fly. Computor mal-function and the only option is eject before the aircraft goes un-stable and flies like a tumbling brick.
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