Is underfloor heating more costly to run?

[Agile]

One reason why I dont like UFH in bedrooms is that I like to undress in a warm room but immediately I get into bed I like to have a lower air temperature of perhaps 15 C and a nice thick duck feather duvet to cover me.

Another reason I like a cool bedroom is that I can get cudded more!

With UFH it can take over an hour to cool the room down and by I will have gone to sleep.

Tony

 

[Richardthe3rd]

It's only a no brainer when it's suited to the building and the building rate of heat loss, ceiling height lots of other factors.

7 1000mm rads 600mm high, two of which are doubles; 30m of 22 and 60 of 15mm plus the boiler is around 50 litres Tony so I don't know how you worked out those figures.

Horses for courses.

UF is a lot more expensive to put in but in the right situation I am quite prepared to believe it is superior, it just isn't always the right situation.

Not sure why you think ceiling height is a factor with VC??? When in old Churches etc it's the system of choice when the system is being replaced. Remember, you're heating people in these buildings & not buildings.
Of course in homes the construction & U values are a big factor, you are mostly limited by floor area & the output watt/M2. So you're correct, it doesn't suit poorly insulated homes & some buildings.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

One reason why I dont like UFH in bedrooms is that I like to undress in a warm room but immediately I get into bed I like to have a lower air temperature of perhaps 15 C and a nice thick duck feather duvet to cover me.

Another reason I like a cool bedroom is that I can get cudded more!

With UFH it can take over an hour to cool the room down and by I will have gone to sleep.

Tony

I agree Tony, even some ladies don't like hot bedrooms. And with you going through the 'change' & resulting hot flushes you'll not like too much heat..............

Seriously, sometimes the area of UFH under beds a omitted. So small bedrooms are a bit of a PITA to heat with UFH. That's why the First Floor of homes standard radiators are used.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

Hi David, I like to hear your view on the efficiency difference of the boiler between a radiator system and a UFH system, providing all other aspects are the same.

I may have answered that in my previous post mate, but please ask away if I can enlighten further.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

OP.
I think I'd only install UFH in the ground floor & get a concrete screed in these areas if you can. Radiators maybe the best choice in the remaining areas & perhaps UFH on Bathroom/Shower room floors.
HTH

 

[hertsboilers]

Hi David, I like to hear your view on the efficiency difference of the boiler between a radiator system and a UFH system, providing all other aspects are the same.

I may have answered that in my previous post mate, but please ask away if I can enlighten further.

If assume it is a same house, to keep a certain room temperature for 24/7, I agree with Agile, whether you use radiators or UFH, the amount of the heat needed is the same.

Considering if it is UFH, the heat lose through floor will be less, as you laid a thick concrete floor.

For the boiler, I would say the running cost is almost the same. Even on a radiator system, to maintain a 20 degree for long, the boiler will be running in condensing mode in most of time, as the same as UFH.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Hi David, I like to hear your view on the efficiency difference of the boiler between a radiator system and a UFH system, providing all other aspects are the same.

Sorry for my long opinion for what it is worth.

I think you would choose the system depending on the property you are going to heat. Insulation, insulation, insulation, boiler flow and return temp.

The UF system must work at low temperatures so the boiler will possibly condense more unless it is on a blending manifold which reduces the flow temperature outside the boiler. If the boiler is a system boiler it will be running hot for DHW and blending outside the boiler so I guess no huge difference. A Vokera system boiler or combi can be set up to run hot to heat DHW but cool if the demand is for underfloor with just a jumper pin in the board or a relay and diverter valve.

A radiator system will run hot if rads sized conventially but can be run cooler if rads oversized or controls can modulate flow temp according to internal or external demand.

I couldn't calculate the saving of one over the other as so much depends on the useage.

People always think of money as in the cost of install and running but the results are more important to me. Slow constant heat to a height of 2m with underfloor (great with high ceilings). No radiators occupying wall space.

Fast more adaptive and controllable heat from radiators and the ceilings are lovely and warm as Richard pointed out. I have 10' ceilings and a 5'3" wife so I have to heat 4'9" of air before she gets warm on her head, never mind her feet I also have a chapel to be heated (30' ceiling) after I finish a lodge next door where UF would be perfect but the cost of warming it for occassional use and destroying a beautiful parquet floor means other measures will have to be employed.

If you need 100KW a day that's what you need. If you can run a condenser cooler you can use some latent heat to reduce the cost of the sensible heat but it will not save the world.

Sometimes just the belief that you have made a wise choice, whatever it may be can help you feel warm and comfortable.

 

[Agile]

But if using an alloy heat exchanger boiler then it will need servicing every three months if used to directly heat a UFH installation with low flow and return temperatures.

Nothing I have said above should be construed as meaning that I do not agree that in living areas UFH is not very comfortable indeed.

But its only really most suitable for retired people, those who work from home and libraries and old peoples homes. Where constant heating is needed.

Foe chapels and those places only occupied very infrequently then infra red radiant heating is the best and most economic solution. This has a start up time of less than a minute and a cool down time the same. Controlled by motion sensors it becomes very cost effective.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

But if using an alloy heat exchanger boiler then it will need servicing every three months if used to directly heat a UFH installation with low flow and return temperatures.

Nothing I have said above should be construed as meaning that I do not agree that in living areas UFH is not very comfortable indeed.

But its only really most suitable for retired people, those who work from home and libraries and old peoples homes. Where constant heating is needed.

Foe chapels and those places only occupied very infrequently then infra red radiant heating is the best and most economic solution. This has a start up time of less than a minute and a cool down time the same. Controlled by motion sensors it becomes very cost effective.

Oh yeah, like swing a few infa red overheads in the Sistine Chapel Tony, great idea??!!!!! We Christians like to look to the heavens while we worship & don't want to see some big fu.k off heaters staring back down at us!! You just get down on your wee rug facing Mecca or whatever bingo hall is near you. Oh no sorry you're not a Muslim, you're a 'diagnostic'.

UFH is perfect for Churches, set up & installed correctly it's perfect for homes too.

 

[Norcon]

"But its only really most suitable for retired people, those who work from home and libraries and old peoples homes. Where constant heating is needed"

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Richardthe3rd]

"But its only really most suitable for retired people, those who work from home and libraries and old peoples homes. Where constant heating is needed"

Absolute nonsense.

Norcon are you Joe90??

 

[u587162]

If I went for UFH in the bedroom or any room for that matter, am I limited to the type of carpet and underlay I can install because obviously a shagpile carpet will be do thick so as not to let the heat through? What about thickness of underlays? Usually you'd buy a good quality thick underlay to protect the Capet and get the soft comfy feeling.

 

[gas112]

This is going along the lines of my towel rail wont heat the bathroom eh what do you have over it ,,,,towels , well there is your answer

 

[u587162]

BIG difference between having a surface mounted towel rail with convection heat and a few mm thick towel and the ability to heat a room compared to tongue and groove boards and underlay plus carpet (50mm at least?) helping to stop the heat getting through?

 

[Richardthe3rd]

BIG difference between having a surface mounted towel rail with convection heat and a few mm thick towel and the ability to heat a room compared to tongue and groove boards and underlay plus carpet (50mm at least?) helping to stop the heat getting through?

A good UFH system supply company will do a design for you, based on the floor construction & floor covering/finish.