Japan bombing 70 years on

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I think you have anti-Chinese glasses on. Sorry, but our economy was on the verge of collapse.

Then I suggest you go and find out what an economy is.

We were on the verge of a large recession, not a collapse, what was in danger was a 'paper' loss of many assets. Economical assets in technology, trade and intellectual properties where not at risk.

And the proof is in the pudding, the economy did not collapse, that it didn't and for the reasons why is proof of it's robustness.

And it is questionable whether or not America is democratic

Hyperbole.

Regarding Chinese technology, a space programme is non trivial, and they have a high record of success. It indicates a high degree of organisation, technical skills and willingness to fund it. They have plans to land men (probably not women, they are too sensible to sign up) on the moon.

All it shows is that they are good at spending money/resources on worthless bondoggles.

America is not the de-facto superpower because it has a space programme.

You might not have noticed but a large proportion of electrical goods are made in China.

'you might not have noticed', no mate, it is the point I am making.

They are just a knock-off nation, we design them, we market them, they make them for us.

Even China knows this, which is why they are investing heavily in trying to become a consumer led economy rather than an export led economy.

The Chinese government are spending huge amounts in science and technology, and the times they are a changin.

Call me when they have actually changed then, because so far you still haven't named any technological or economic fields that they actually LEAD in.

Read the book "The End of The Party" by Andrew Rawnsley. He quotes many of the most senior figures in the UK who considered that the UK was on the verge of collapse. Cash machines closed. Cheques bouncing. People not being paid. Even civil war. It isn't hyperbole.

Regarding China, I think you will find they do lead in manufacturing. Enjoy your chauvinistic viewpoint but the Chinese will leave you behind.

 

[Brigadier]

China might do volume, but what they churn out is hit and miss, and tat.
Battery chargers that set on fire - our supplier says that although he'll take them back, his (Chinese) manufacturer won't. They couldn't care less.
My engineering director friend - visits China frequently (on orders of other director), to purchase tooling - frequently returns with nothing, as tools won't last (I can show you examples of german, British, and French tools that are still going in some UK factories 50 yrs after they started).
When I said "by some measure", I expect it to be related to sheer force of numbers - population, dollars, etc - rather than innovation, or quality.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

You are making the mistake of judging them by the worst cases. Some stuff is tat, much isn't. Japan was the same. They produced rubbish. But now Japanese cameras dominate. Japanese cars are known for reliability. I will give one example. Surefire made the best torches in the world, at a price. The Chinese copied them, then they improved them. Now they lead, and cost less. They have innovated in terms of electronics and engineering. Why do you think that in so many countries Chinese people excel?

 

[JBR]

Why do you think that in so many countries Chinese people excel?

That is certainly my personal experience.

 

[bernardgreen]

Why do you think that in so many countries Chinese people excel?

Maybe these are the people who had the skill and determination to leave China for a better life. And they also have the work ethic to earn a living rather than live on benefits. That said some of the "successful" Chinese do have connections with criminal activity and may be earning their income from illegal activities.

 

[AronSearle]

You are making the mistake of judging them by the worst cases.

No, I am judging them based upon my direct experience of testing Chinese manufactured goods made in Chinese owned and run factories.

They have innovated in terms of electronics and engineering. Why do you think that in so many countries Chinese people excel?

That will be why you can only think of a torch as an example of the technical dominance

You are confusing potential with certainty, China has the 'potential' to become a world leading superpower, but it also has the potential to remain a third rate manufacturing house.

 

[bernardgreen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal

Babies died due to toxic baby milk products.

The issue raised concerns about food safety and political corruption in China, and damaged the reputation of China's food exports. At least 11 countries stopped all imports of Chinese dairy products.

A number of criminal prosecutions were conducted by the Chinese government. Two people were executed, one given a suspended death penalty, three people receiving life imprisonment, two receiving 15-year jail terms,[6] and seven local government officials, as well as the Director of the Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine (AQSIQ), being fired or forced to resign.[7]

According to VOA News, the World Health Organization referred to the incident as one of the largest food safety events it has had to deal with in recent years, and that the crisis of confidence among Chinese consumers would be hard to overcome. A spokesman said the scale of the problem proved it was "clearly not an isolated accident, [but] a large-scale intentional activity to deceive consumers for simple, basic, short-term profits."[8]

In late October 2008, similar adulteration with melamine was discovered in eggs and possibly other food. The source was traced to melamine being added to animal feed, despite a ban imposed in June 2007 following the scandal over pet food ingredients exported to the United States.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal#cite_note-10

There are many othe cases of products being harmful to health.

 

[JBR]

And they also have the work ethic to earn a living rather than live on benefits.

That's exactly what one of the Chinese teachers said on the 'Chinese school' programme I've been watching. "No work - no money". It certainly is an incentive.
However, I do believe in a welfare state but only for those who are in genuine need. Using the welfare state as a career choice is what accounts for much of this country's woes, and also accounts for why so many schoolchildren (like the ones on the programme) just couldn't give a toss. Why bother working at school if you have a guaranteed 'career' when you leave anyway, especially if you are a 'breeder': the more kids, the more handouts.

 

[bernardgreen]

I have in front of me a picture of the PCB in a piece of equipment. The separation between the track carrying the mains Live and a track carrying the 0 volt of the "isolated" constant current output is about 1.5 mm. The PCB is made from resin bonded paper which is notorious for absorbing moisture if stored in humid conditions and becoming conductive.

Fortunately this is not a production item but an evaluation sample sent to a UK company by a design and manufacturing company working to the specification of function required that was sent to them. They have rejected it as not meeting minimum standards of safety.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

You are making the mistake of judging them by the worst cases.

No, I am judging them based upon my direct experience of testing Chinese manufactured goods made in Chinese owned and run factories.

They have innovated in terms of electronics and engineering. Why do you think that in so many countries Chinese people excel?

That will be why you can only think of a torch as an example of the technical dominance

You are confusing potential with certainty, China has the 'potential' to become a world leading superpower, but it also has the potential to remain a third rate manufacturing house.

You are playing silly games. I have not said they dominate technically, so why are you asking me to prove that? The point I am making, in contrast to your viewpoint, is that the Chinese economy is advancing rapidly, and in the not too distant future, they will be the leaders in many areas of the modern world. Many if not most consumer goods are made in China, including iPods, iPads and iPhones. Those are designed in America, but we are seeing electronic goods being designed and made in China. At first Chinese brands did not have the quality control of Western designed goods, but that is changing rapidly. Yes of course there is a lot of tat, but to characterise it all as tat is a mistake. I gave you the example of torches as something I have first hand experience with. I use them for cross country running at night, and will happily pay £100 for a good one. Chinese cars are currently a bit cr@p, 10 years ago they were totally cr@p. Even the Top Gear team admired the advances they have made. In 10 years time Chinese cars may well be on a par with Western designed cars. The Chinese government has long had a policy of obtaining Western technology, and transferring it to native Chinese universtities and companies. If you remember, at one time we sneered at the Japanese. Now Japan has an enviable reputation for producing high quality goods.

Yes of course they have the potential to remain a third rate manufacturing house. But they won't as they have the political will to succeed. Of course that is an opinion, but it will be proved, or disproved, by the passage of time.

Do you remember when Made In Britain was a bye word for rubbish? Our products were at one time complete shiiiite. Now we produce world respected goods, although all too often the company is foreign owned, such as Jaguar Land Rover ... sadly.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I have in front of me a picture of the PCB in a piece of equipment. The separation between the track carrying the mains Live and a track carrying the 0 volt of the "isolated" constant current output is about 1.5 mm. The PCB is made from resin bonded paper which is notorious for absorbing moisture if stored in humid conditions and becoming conductive.

Fortunately this is not a production item but an evaluation sample sent to a UK company by a design and manufacturing company working to the specification of function required that was sent to them. They have rejected it as not meeting minimum standards of safety.

I once met an Indian who was rude. Therefore all Indians are rude. Assuming I use your logic.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Now we produce world respected goods, although all too often the company is foreign owned, such as Jaguar Land Rover ... sadly.

I think that is the dominant factor.

I maintain that the vast majority of British management is and always has been rubbish.

 

[AronSearle]

and in the not too distant future, they will be the leaders in many areas of the modern world.

Given that you cannot provide examples of where they lead technologically, you are basing this on what, that they can knock out a load of cheap goods that we design, and 'might one day' be the inventors rather than the machine shop?

Conjecture and hyperbole.

but we are seeing electronic goods being designed and made in China. At first Chinese brands did not have the quality control of Western designed goods, but that is changing rapidly.

But again you name nothing nor provide no sources (well, other than a torch, wopee do).

K.

But they won't as they have the political will to succeed.

Their leaders main political aim is their retention of power, not the success of their country.

Their political system is what allowed them to make huge industrial leaps, but it is also what is already causing it to stagnate, technological invention and business innovation does not happen under corrupt controlling regime, but its good at creating a manufacturing powerhouse.

 

[bernardgreen]

I once met an Indian who was rude. Therefore all Indians are rude. Assuming I use your logic

I am NOT saying that because the design of one item is poor quality and potential harmful to the user that all products designed in that country ( or manufacturer ) will be the same poor quality. That said the percentage of designs that are poor quality does seem to be significantly higher in countries where there is little regard for the quality ( or safety ) of life of the citizens of the country ( or for the employees of the company )

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Now we produce world respected goods, although all too often the company is foreign owned, such as Jaguar Land Rover ... sadly.

I think that is the dominant factor.

I maintain that the vast majority of British management is and always has been rubbish.

I agree. But part of it might be the unwillingness of banks to support companies. They want quick profit. Apparently in Germany banks work in partnership with companies.