Kingfisher programmer

[nichos]

Hi,

Boiler Kingfisher Mf 60.

With its standard boiler timer (KMFKITA) I had the CH to constant & used to control the boiler operation via a Honeywell Programmer Room Thermostat in the hall.

Recently this standard boiler timer went wrong & I fitted the potterton boiler digital Programmer BP2000.

Now this programmer seems to override the Honeywell room stat.

Any help on beeing able to control the temperuture, from the other side of the bangalow, with the Honeywell room stat?

Thanx ..........nick

 

[D_Hailsham]

The problem is obviously a wiring fault. (I assume you have checked that the new timer is set to CH constant )

Which Honeywell Programmable room stat do you have?

Why did you bother to replace the Potterton timer? Are you using it to control the hot water times?

Where did you disconnect the old timer wiring? Was it a case of unplugging the old and plugging in the new or did you have to disconnect the wires? If so did you make a note of the connections?

What system do you have - fully pumped or pumped CH/gravity HW?

What type of motorized valves do you have?

 

[nichos]

Thanx,

1. No wiring was touched, still as it was before.

2. Yes the new boiler timer is on constant

3. The room stat replacement is Honeywell CM907 7day Programmable room thermostat.

4. As mentioned above "....Recently this standard boiler timer went wrong...."

5. Yes it does control the HW, as it used to with the old boiler timer.

6. The new digital boiler timer has a prewired plug & plugs in where the old came off. No wires touched.

7. The system is fully pumped sealed, Potterrton Kingfisher Mf60 with OSO Hotwater Cylinder, Y Plan a 3 port valve and a 2 port valve.

8. Motorised valves 2 port is H/Well V4043H & 3 port H/Well 4000-3916

 

[D_Hailsham]

Thanks for the info. Two more questions:

Why do you have a 3-port valve and a 2-port valve? Is it something to do with the OSO cylinder?

Where is the connection to the CM907 terminal A coming from?

The cause of the problem may be nothing to do with your new timer, purely coincidental.

 

[nichos]

1. System (10-15 yrs old) came with 2 zone valves, maybe for OSO cyl.



2. connection to CM907, please see last 2 screen shots, from PL4 I think ?? but, in any case I used the same cables as the existing ones on the wall for the original RoomStat ie. Red to 1 & Yellow to 3 (AS I FOUND THEM) or A & B on CM907 as per instructions........:-
CM907 wiring

I doubt very much if I made a mistake & reversed the above as I marked them clearly..........?





3. Coincidental to or from what though ? I depend on the experts.

 

[D_Hailsham]

1. System (10-15 yrs old) came with 2 zone valves, maybe for OSO cyl.

That's a very strange arrangement in the first pic. Normally you would have either one mid-position valve or two zone valves. As it stands, the zone valve on the left is redundant.

2. connection to CM907, please see last 2 screen shots, from PL4 I think ?? but, in any case I used the same cables as the existing ones on the wall for the original RoomStat ie. Red to 1 & Yellow to 3 (AS I FOUND THEM) or A & B on CM907 as per instructions

OK. If it worked with the old timer, then there's no reason why it shouldn't work with the new one.

I doubt very much if I made a mistake & reversed the above as I marked them clearly

You're the exception!

On your last pic, taken from the boiler manual, you have highlighted two terminals, on PL4 and the Terminal block. As these terminals are connected together by a red wire, I'm not sure what you are saying.

3. Coincidental to or from what though ? I depend on the experts.

The problem may be in the motorized valves, which have switches inside them, not in the new timer and CM907. It's just a coincidence that the problem occurred when you changed the timer.

You said in your first post that the original timer went wrong. What were the symptoms?

 

[nichos]

sorry but did not highlight, or meant to anything





The old potterton standard timer its display failed, & do not make them any more, they have the full digital now as shown below.



wall main junction box.


Wiring by the PCB top of boiler.
The left triple connector is from the boiler programmer (Optional Timer) & the larger (7) is the Terminal Block, both depicted in the boiler manual wiring diagram.

 

[nichos]

if the M.Valves wiring to wall J.Box is of any use here it is.

Sorry cannot draw proper wiring diagrams, I only manage pictorials.

thanx for the help .......nick

 

[D_Hailsham]

if the M.Valves wiring to wall J.Box is of any use here it is.

That diagram does not make sense!

1. Are the three left hand terminals the mains in?

2. The wire colours for the 2-port valve are wrong. They should be: blue & brown for the motor and grey & orange for the internal microswitch.

3. The wiring for the 3-port valve makes sense.

Terminal 5 should connect to the output (B0) of the CM907

Terminal 7 should connect to programmer HW OFF and cylinder stat SAT terminal.

Terminal 8 is the switched live to the boiler

What does terminal 9 connect to?

Which model OSO cylinder do you have?

 

[D_Hailsham]

There is a switch on the back of the Potterton programmer. This should be set to Pumped (16), not Gravity (10). The programmer will have to be reset if you have to change the switch.

 

[nichos]

Thanx again,

3 L/H are Mains IN

Managed to draw the wiring exactly as was originally & is now on this system.
Nothing was touched since we moved here 3yrs ago, except when the new boiler programmer was pluged in.


Terminal 9 takes the light Brown of 2 port valve. It also has a Black wire going to Room Stat but is not connected to it as is the blue wire also.

Cannot find an OSO type, perhaps "Y" plan? & IM3?


The S/W I left as per default on 16


The two black leads coming in are of the M.Port Valves, top one of 2 port V.


Perhaps I should mention that with the boiler timer set to start-stop CH, it only works if the RoomStat is rotated over the ambient room temp, & same with CM907 it must be set to "Manual" ie constantly on.

Also I tested the RoomStat for continuity & when knob turned L or R I get a meter reading, but not when I test the CM907 between A & B (red & yallow) points, should it or is the CM907 faulty ?? .......nick

 

[D_Hailsham]

3 L/H are Mains IN

Thanks for confirming that.

The S/W I left as per default on 16

Good

Managed to draw the wiring exactly as was originally & is now on this system. Nothing was touched since we moved here 3yrs ago, except when the new boiler programmer was plugged in.

Either that diagram is wrong or the system has never been wired correctly. For example:

The white wire goes to terminal 5, but nothing else connects to terminal 5.

Room stat yellow should not connect to valve grey.

There is no cylinder thermostat shown.

Are you sure that terminals 6 and 7 go to the room stat? It would make more sense if they went to the cylinder stat.

I need you to check the cylinder stat and room stat wiring before I can give you the correct wiring.

 

[nichos]

Thanks a lot,

I will try to find about the rest of the wiring on Monday but, how could it work all these years & after the new boiler timer was pluged in the CM907 auto function fails to work..

As I said
"........with the boiler timer set to start-stop CH, it only works if the RoomStat is rotated over the ambient room temp........."
all work as they should to & contrloed by the RoomStat. Only the CM907 auto function fails to work.

As I am not professional plumber/Electrician, I would hate to tackle a complete rewiring. .........nick

 

[D_Hailsham]

I will try to find about the rest of the wiring on Monday but, how could it work all these years & after the new boiler timer was plugged in the CM907 auto function fails to work.

I agree; that is the question. If your wiring diagram is correct, the system would have never worked. Which is why I asked you to check it, particularly the room and cylinder thermostats.

Although not shown, I assume that the pump is connected to terminal 10.

As I said
"........with the boiler timer set to start-stop CH, it only works if the RoomStat is rotated over the ambient room temp........."
all work as they should to & controlled by the RoomStat. Only the CM907 auto function fails to work.

Why do you have two thermostats - Room stat and CM907?

Where are they located?

I would hate to tackle a complete rewiring.

I doubt if it will come to that.

 

[nichos]

Will draw out all the wiring on Monday.

As per average old system, the boiler had the old timer for CH & HW and it was remotely controlled by the Room stat in the hall at the other end of the bangalow.


For our convenience I replaced this Satchwell R.Stat with the CM907 which worked for 18 months perfrctly.


With the recent problem ie

Recently this standard boiler timer went wrong & I fitted the potterton boiler digital Programmer BP2000.

Now this programmer seems to override the Honeywell room stat

now I set the operating times required on the boiler new timer (BP2000), I replaced the CM907 with the old RoomStat just to see if it still works as before, which it does.

The same ofcource is achieved with the CM907 set to "MANual" ie acts only as a roomstat (expencive one at £60) BUT we lost its "AUTO" function whitch looked after times & Temps.

So you see I do not have installed & operating both simultanously.

As mentioned in last paragraph 5 posts earlier, if the 907 ought to test for continuity as the roomstat did, the fact that it did not it may be faulty.

I feel that as it has only 2 connections A & B, when it operates those two should connect & show on the meter, but as not an expert I do not know if that is true. Do you or anyone else does ???. thanx ......nick