You can cut it off and use an FCU.
Kitchen Wiring Assistance
- Thread starter vigalent
- Start date
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Yes you can. But since its a new kitchen design and the microwave oven is being built in, I would go along a similar route to what you suggested before and leave an unswitched socket behind the oven for the plug and use either a 20amp switch or fcu to the side for isolation purposes.
Dear oh dear John, that was rather sloppy of you. I am surprised when the OP quite clearly stated this:-
But anyway, lets not dwell on that.
As to the power of the microwave:-
Two out of three elements can be used simultaneously, so lets say grill+convector =3kW
then add a bit for each of the following:-
Fan, electronics, light, system inefficiencies/internal workings, the motor for the spinney-roundey bit at the bottom =400W (approx)
give a max potential load of 3.4kW.
As it is a cooking appliance, we can apply a certain amount of diversity to the max current to give a design current. (this is easy for most electricians to calculate)
This would easily provide a current value <13A, so a fitted plug or FCU is just fine and dandy (as per MI's)
As to the positioning of said plug/fcu, i would rather see that fitted in a place (usually an adjacent cupboard) so that it can easily be disconnected, for whatever reason, without first having to remove the appliance from its housing as this may prove to be a PITA
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Me, too - particularly since I was specifically looking and thinking about what this 'third thing' was! - as you say, sloppy
Indeed - and given the output power of the microwave is given as 1kW that also probably has an input power of the order or 1500W - so roughly the same calculation would apply if the microwave were 'one of the two'. This obviously all implies that the control system is such that one can only have two on at once, which I therefore presume must be the case.
As for diversity, I don't think one can reasonably apply that to the microwave bit (since it will be possible to instruct it to have a 100% duty cycle), but one can for the grill/convection - so, in practice, I agree that any two will have a 'diversified load' of <13A - which is obvioulsy what the manufacturer believes.
Kind Regards, John.
I can only speak of the types i have seen (including my own ) but they do all seem to limit to 2 of 3 elements. OOI, they are handy when Mrs. Faradayski has omitted to masterchef me something up for dinner and i am forced to go from frozen to cooked in 10 minutes whilst avoiding e-coli or similar.Me, too - particularly since I was specifically looking and thinking about what this 'third thing' was! - as you say, sloppy
Indeed - and given the output power of the microwave is given as 1kW that also probably has an input power of the order or 1500W - so roughly the same calculation would apply if the microwave were 'one of the two'. This obviously all implies that the control system is such that one can only have two on at once, which I therefore presume must be the case.
erm, glad you pointed that out with such clarity, which i presume was just incase you thought i wasn't already aware of such ponderings.
If it were just a standard microwave (domestic, not combination) then the issue of diversity become a moot point anyway since the power input would be less than 13A, so a plug/socket would be adequate in any case
Yep, given that you are presumably/hopefully not the only person who reads my posts, I made that point for clarity - to explain why I was agreeing with you.
Kind Regards, John.
Ok, so from whats been said so far......
Chances are its going to come with a 13a plug (which if it does, I will not remove just in case it invalidates the warranty)
It will need to go on its own circuit (min 16a) and wired via either an accessible FCU or 20DP sw which will feed a unswitched socket.
The single oven can in mind mind be done in exactly the same way (except I'll probably use a flex outlet as the manual says it comes with a terminal block only...no power cable).
Chances are its going to come with a 13a plug (which if it does, I will not remove just in case it invalidates the warranty)
It will need to go on its own circuit (min 16a) and wired via either an accessible FCU or 20DP sw which will feed a unswitched socket.
The single oven can in mind mind be done in exactly the same way (except I'll probably use a flex outlet as the manual says it comes with a terminal block only...no power cable).
If you're going to retain the plug (with its fuse), then it makes no real sense to also have an FCU. Just a DP-switched socket (some have DP switches these days) may well satisfy all the requirements - or, if you'd prefer (for switch accessibility), an unswitched socket and a separate 20A DP switch.
Kind Regards, John.
I think the MIs tell you to isolate it when cleaning it. Bit tricky if all you have is a socket inside the unit housing it.
Which raises a more general issue. People are always going on in almost Batemanesque ways about concealed junction boxes, but sockets and flex outlets have screwed joints too....
True - hence the next bit of what I wrote, which you chose not to quote, namely:
Indeed, but I guess this comes down to a decision as to what constitutes 'concealed'. The regs have never been explicit about this, so there are varying opinions. A socket underneath floorboards would presumably be regarded as being as inaccessible as a non-MF JB in the same place, and hence in violation of the regs. Whether or not a socket, or JB, behind an appliance which could theoretically be pulled out should be regarded as 'accessible' or 'concealed' is anyone's guess!
Kind Regards, John.
OK - since this will clearly make you feel much better:
I think the MIs tell you to isolate it when cleaning it. Bit tricky if all you have is a socket inside the unit housing it, therefore preferences are irrelevant - there is no choice.
Maybe the regs haven't but dictionaries have.
I don't need to guess.
I know what the word "accessible" means - if you don't then you should look it up.
I know that this oven weights 38kg.
I know that an accessory with a screwed joint behind the oven is not accessible.
Fair enough - but I still think opinions will varying about what constitutes accessible. In any event...
(a)...I did wonder about that quoted weight. Do you not think that 38kg is extrordinarily heavy for any microwave, even a 'combination one'? - some cookers don't weigh any more than that.
(b)...The regs' concern about (banning of') inaccessible screwed joints presumably really is about inaccessible screw terminals, whether joining two cables or joining one cable to some other metallic conductor. If so, you presumably will feel that it's not acceptable to have sockets, plugs, FCUs, outlet plates or any other accessories behind this appliance - in fact, you presumably would feel that the only compliant approach would be to bring a trailing lead from the appliance out into some 'accessible place' before terminating it in any way. Is that your view?
Kind Regards, John.
I purposely said 'for whatever reason' to cut down on the amount of typing to display that which should be obvious to any decent practising electrician.
-I would always like to be able to isolate an appliance easily.
-If you were a practising electrician who has ever carried out an EICR, you would consider the person who installed a socket behind a 38Kg appliance which has then been securely fastened into a kitchen carcass to be a total winker of the highest order. During the PITA of removing the stupid frigging oven just to unplug it/check socket connections etc, i feel that you would invent several new ways of describing the level of idiocy of the installer.
Even without being a practising electrician who has ever carried out an EICR, I agree with you totally, would never do that myself and have often cursed when I have encountered such a situation - although I obviously don't undertake formal EICRs, I have been known to work on electrical installations, and some of us non-electricians do undertake 'periodic I&T' for our own purposes, you know
However, BAS has raised an interesting point which widens the discussion. If one interprets the regs as prohibiting any inaccessible screwed connection (between a cable and anything), is it actually compliant to do anything other than bringing an unbroken 'flying lead' (replacing it with a longer one if necessary) all the way from the appliance to an accessible place (such as the cupboard you mention)?
Kind Regards, John.
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