Kitchen - Wiring under worktop appliances and building regs

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Hi,

I'm having a new kitchen built on the side of my house. I'm going to do as much of the electrical work myself as possible to cut costs, but employ an electrician to advise me, check my design, check my work at stages, and install and connect the consumer unit. I've been reading up extensively on regs but i've hit a problem i can't find an answer to. Please don't reply telling me i should leave it to the electrician.

So the standard kitchen radial above the worktop for sockets is straight forward - horizontal safe zone followed around the wall. My question comes to under worktop appliances. I do not want to place fused spurs above the worktop in the safe zone as i want a minimal look.

If i don't do this, i don't get a vertical safe zone to drop the cable down the wall to behind the unit.

So how do you get mains to the appliances which meets regs, while satisfying the following:

1) No switched fused spurs on show above the worktop

2) No switched sockets behind the unit (inaccessible, and will stop the appliance going flush to the back of the wall)

3) Ideally no switched sockets or spurs cut into the back of the adjacent kitchen unit

I believe my ideal solution would be a grid switch the other side of the wall (which is the utility room), running to unswitched sockets, in the void under the adjacent cabinets sitting on the floor (mounted on timber perhaps).

If that is the case, how do you route the cable to meet regs? Deeper than 50mm isn't an option as it's an internal stud wall with the utility room the other side.

Thanks,

Elliot
 
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An L shaped route for cables is acceptable.

That is down from one accessory and then horizontal to socket - or vice versa.


You cannot go deeper tha 50mm. In normal walls.
Protection if less than 50mm. does not mean go deeper.
 
Thanks for the reply. So i could spur off of an above worktop socket, drop down, and go left or right as far as i need to get to the appliance?

If so, can i bring the wire out of the plasterboard and it can be open and visible under the kitchen units and run along the floor as far as needed, and the socket would be lose / on timber sitting on the concrete floor? (i've read this is ok in a few places but i'm not 100%)
 
If so, can i bring the wire out of the plasterboard and it can be open and visible under the kitchen units
Yes
and run along the floor as far as needed,
Bad practise. clip the cable to the wall surface. Then it is out of the way and supported.

and the socket would be lose / on timber sitting on the concrete floor? (i've read this is ok in a few places but i'm not 100%)

NO! only sockets on flexible cables with cable grips are allowed to do this.
Like this
PL0946506-40.jpg


Otherwise cables and sockets MUST be properly fixed to walls/backgrounds/cupboards etc. Not left kicking around hidden behind plinths.

Never leave socket loose on the floor, a minor flood is going to soak your loose socket, trip your RCD, melt the food in your freezer..gloom doom..

Hopefully, your overseeing electrician will take your pants down and give you a damn good thrashing to even think of doing such a thing.
He is supposed to be putting his signature on the certificate that says that he has done the work himself!!
 
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Thanks for the reply. So i could spur off of an above worktop socket, drop down, and go left or right as far as i need to get to the appliance?
Yes, aslong as it is horizontal to the socket.

If so, can i bring the wire out of the plasterboard and it can be open and visible under the kitchen units and run along the floor as far as needed, and the socket would be lose / on timber sitting on the concrete floor? (i've read this is ok in a few places but i'm not 100%)
It is ok, although a bit naff.
There is nothing wrong with the socket being behind the appliance.
 
There is nothing wrong with the socket being behind the appliance.
Not wrong, but it can be a rather inconvenient, eg fuse in plug pops when washing machine is full of washing and water. You can't get to plug as washing machine (now weighing several tons) is in the way. I prefer to have the socket in an adjacent cupboard.,

Also plug and socket often means the appliance cannot go far enough back to go fully under worktop.
 
In which case the electrician which wired up my parent's new kitchen 12 months ago wasn't very good at all. Cables were dropped from fused spurs down the wall and the sockets left lose on the concrete floor for the appliances!

So this brings me back to my original question - how does one achieve what i'm looking to do? Or do i have no choice but to fix the sockets to an adjacent cupboard, or into the wall behind the appliance.

If i go in the wall behind the appliance - doesn't this cause problems with ease of access to cut power to the appliance in the event of a problem? I'm not sure if that's against the regs either? Furthermore if the socket is hidden from view behind the appliance does that still constitute a safe zone?
 
That's a bit strict TTC.

Others will say you cant have T&E in a trailing socket.
How does one kick-around under a kitchen unit?

As for flood, he did say raised on block of wood.
 
I think the objection is the "loose" part - as long as it's fixed to the wood, meets IP ratings and the cable is clipped it would be OK, but I wouldn't do it when there's a perfectly good wall. Surface Mount on the wall would be better than a bit of wood on the floor IMO.
 
Ok so lets assume i go with a grid switch to turn appliances off centrally. 2.5mm t&e running along the top 150mm of the wall for each appliance, can that then be dropped down vertically all of the way to floor and the unswitched socket sits on timber on the floor under the cabinets for each appliance? But i don't think i'd have a vertical safe zone to drop it down?
 
Ok so lets assume i go with a grid switch to turn appliances off centrally.
Well a central position but they would be individually switched.
How many appliances do you have?

2.5mm t&e running along the top 150mm of the wall for each appliance,
No. Along the socket line.
can that then be dropped down vertically all of the way to floor
The question does not arise.
and the unswitched socket sits on timber on the floor under the cabinets for each appliance?
Well, I wouldn't do it, but yes.
But i don't think i'd have a vertical safe zone to drop it down?
You would from a socket or the grid switch.

I think you are looking for problems which do not exist.
You want minimalist but then talk about grid-switches.

Just put the sockets behind the appliances (like most people have) and run up to socket line and connect to nearest socket.



If i go in the wall behind the appliance - doesn't this cause problems with ease of access to cut power to the appliance in the event of a problem?
No.
I'm not sure if that's against the regs either?
It is not.
Furthermore if the socket is hidden from view behind the appliance does that still constitute a safe zone?
Yes.
If you want to solve another problem which does not exist, Use the L route.
 
The grid switch was being placed in the utility room so it was out of view, but allowed easy access to turn off the appliance.

Appliance wise - dishwasher, microwave, warming drawer, fridge freezer, wine chiller. Hob on island on it's own circuit, two ovens on their own circuit.

So to simplify things, i'll take your advice and come off of the nearest socket at an L, and the socket will be on timber on the floor under the adjacent cabinet, or in the wall if the depth of the appliance is not a problem. If i have to switch the item off i'll just do it at the CU for the whole circuit.
 
The simplest option is to put a socket in the adjacent cupboard, typically located on the side of the cupboard near the front. Accessible for when disconnection is required, not on view, does not involve cutting holes in the flimsy back of the cupboard, does not get in the way of any appliance.

Grid switches, other switches or fused connection units are not required and even if fitted will never be used. Their only purpose is so things can be accidentally switched off by someone shoving a microwave oven on the worktop into the switches. I have been called out to that very problem twice, once for a washing machine which was 'broken' and another for a freezer which had defrosted and destroyed everything inside.

Removing the plug from the socket is essential, as when anyone attends to repair your fridge, washing machine etc., the very first thing they will need to do is unplug the appliance.
If that is not possible due to it being concealed under a unit or behind the appliance, you will probably be left with a callout fee and nothing will be repaired.
 
I see what you're saying, the reason i was trying to avoid putting in the cupboards is because 1) Most, if not all of my lower cabinets are drawers. 2) It's a pretty expensive solid wood kitchen, and the thought of cutting holes in the cabinets for sockets seems a bit wrong!

I figure if an appliance is being serviced, then it would need pulling out anyway, which makes the plug under the cabinets either side accessible, or the rear accessible.
 
Genuine question - Why spend considerable money on a "pretty expensive solid wood kitchen" with a lot of appliances but not pay a professional (to "cut costs") to carry out an important part of the project?
 

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