Legal to install new boiler without TRVs on radiators?

[megafix]

Hi,

Is it legal to have a new boiler fitted without having TRVs fitted to existing radiators at the same time?

I've had a Gas Safe installer (all checked and legit) fit a new Vaillant Ecotec 831 Plus boiler. It has a Magclean filter, timer/ clock on the front and a wireless room thermostat fitted in the Hallway. I didn't opt for TRVs on the radiators at this time to save money and the fact i wish for the radiators to be replaced next year when i have the money to do the lot in one go.

I asked the installer about the building regulation certificate and he says he can not issue one without fitting TRVs to the old radiators but will be able to next year when we have new radiators/TRVs fitted as everything else is now in place and compliant.

The system was flushed and cleaned, inhibitor added, and the boiler 'commissioned' as all the readings have been logged down in the user manuals.

The only document i have received is a warranty letter directly from Vaillant confirming the 10 year warranty until 2025.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I've issued them without TRVs.

 

[muggles]

No TRVs = non-compliance with Building Regs (specifically Part L, which is concerned with energy efficiency). If he's not registered the install then you might well find your warranty is invalid too...check the T&Cs

 

[D_Hailsham]

No TRVs = non-compliance with Building Regs (specifically Part L, which is concerned with energy efficiency).

That's correct for a completely new installation; but when you are only replacing the boiler it is just recommended as "best practice".

There's no reason why the installer cannot register the boiler with Gassafe, who will issue the Compliance certificate.

 

[megafix]

Thanks for the input. I will have to ask them again and see if i get anywhere.

I'm not sure what counts as a completely new installation. I had an old heat only boiler downstairs in the kitchen powering a copper water cyclinder in the airing cupboard upstairs. Now, i have only the new Vaillant 831 boiler which was fitted into the newly empty airing cupboard upstairs.
Essentially, boiler was moved from downstairs to upstairs and changed from a heat only boiler/ copper water cyclinder to a new condensing combi boiler.

I have checked the Vaillant warranty T&Cs on both the back of the paper letter and their website and i would appear to be ok on that front.

I have no plans to sell my home any time soon so building reg paperwork can wait. I suppose i just wasn't a aware a boiler could be fitted (by a registered installer) without the work being registered. I'm just a layperson.

Thanks.

 

[gas112]

Do people just sit and make things up in their own heads no trvs so no boiler warranty oh sorry mrs you have painted your pipes so your boiler warranty is void

 

[D_Hailsham]

I'm not sure what counts as a completely new installation.

That's easy!

According to the Domestic Building Services Compliance Guide (2013 Edition) a New System means a system installed:

(a) in a new building
(b) for the first time in an existing building
(c) as a complete replacement for a system in an existing building

According to those definitions, just changing/relocating the boiler does not count as a new system.

 

[megafix]

Do people just sit and make things up in their own heads no trvs so no boiler warranty oh sorry mrs you have painted your pipes so your boiler warranty is void

Hi,

I need to be 100% sure i understand so please go easy.

Does your comment mean that not having any TRVs fitted DOES invalidate a boiler warranty or that it is a load of rubbish if someone says that to you meaning the boiler warranty is fine without TRVs fitted? I'm guessing it's a load of rubbish as painted pipes are obviously not part of a boiler install but part of the house.

tia

 

[Dan Robinson]

It's twaddle.

 

[DP]

Megafix, what is your problem with fitting TRVs? Do you have a room thermostat or Programmable roomstat even?

I would have thought it would be prudent to fit controls that give you heat when and where you need it, be it a boiler that heated Adam and Eve's hut or palace queen resides in.

My three bedroom semi has two zones and some TRVs. I am not happy with this setup, so will soon convert the installation to 5 zone system instead of two. Why am I doing this may you ask.........it is so I can heat the area that needs to be heated and not the whole house.

 

[endecotp]

Megafix, what is your problem with fitting TRVs

As he wrote in the first post, he wants to wait until next year when he can afford to replace the radiators.

 

[megafix]

Megafix, what is your problem with fitting TRVs? Do you have a room thermostat or Programmable roomstat even?

I would have thought it would be prudent to fit controls that give you heat when and where you need it, be it a boiler that heated Adam and Eve's hut or palace queen resides in.

My three bedroom semi has two zones and some TRVs. I am not happy with this setup, so will soon convert the installation to 5 zone system instead of two. Why am I doing this may you ask.........it is so I can heat the area that needs to be heated and not the whole house.

Hi,

My ancient boiler was on the blink and so i had to decide rather quickly what to do, within budget. The ancient faulty Baxi boiler powering a water cyclinder had simply reached end of life.

At this time, the only issue with completely replacing the entire system (new radiators throughout, all with TRVs fitted) is cost.

It was decided that to stay within the budget, the installer would fit new the Vaillant Ecotec Plus 831 boiler, timer, wireless room thermostat and flushing/ Magclean filter along with new gas feed pipes etc. He stated that fitting TRVs to the existing inefficient radiators would be pointless and that because i fully intend to get new radiators to replace each of the old ones throughout the house, it should all be done at the same time (next year). This way i'd have hot water again and heat over the winter at least.

It was only afterwards when i asked about getting a building regulation certificate that he said this wasn't possible as we need TRV's to make the install fully compliant (this wasn't thought of as an issue by myself at the time due to delaying that part until next year). It was only when i received a building reg certificate in the post relating to recently fitted double glazing that it's made me rethink the boiler install. The installer said he will happily sign it off next year although i do not know how easy that is because it could be a year from the boiler install date.

I do not intend to move or sell the place in the forseeable future and i'll likely still be here when the heating system needs replacing again so it's not a biggie i suppose. I just wish i had known about all of the requirements first then i might have done things slightly differently somehow.

 

[roguetrader]

Just write 'Customer declined' where TRV's are mentioned on the benchmark, no one will come round and kidnap your dog and the SAS certainly won't storm your house and escort you to guantanamo bay if you don't want TRV's fitted.
Some people get far too wrapped up in officialdom, you don't have to have them if you don't want them on a boiler change.

 

[DP]

Megafix, I have yet to encounter a Baxi that HAS arrived at death's door in my travels as a repairer. But then again I have not seen your boiler.
You can add controls to your current boiler thus reducing fuel consumed and get the system ready for new boiler when it comes

A radiator is a lump of metal that gives off heat. Cannot understand how an old radiators becomes inefficient

 

[D_Hailsham]

A radiator is a lump of metal that gives off heat. Cannot understand how an old radiators becomes inefficient.

If magnetite etc coats the inside of a rad it acts as an insulator, so heat is not transferred so easily from the water to the metal. The coating also reduces the size of the water-ways, so the flow rate is reduced, also giving a lower output.