Chappers that would be much appreciated, the struts dont go to the wall plate they rest on the 8x3 about a foot from the wall plate and if your sure they can be taken out and the roof wont cave in then i will give it a shot or could i get some joists and run from gable to gable toothed into the wall what will support in some way? i am just unsure as the span is roughly i think 18-2o feet, thanks for the sketch Ian
loft conversion advise. mainly floor joists
- Thread starter maximus999
- Start date
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Dont worry about spanning from gable to gable just lay your new joists from wallplate to spine wall and build off of these.
Here is a quick sketch sorry about the quality, the text missing to the right indicates the new floor joists
Here is a quick sketch sorry about the quality, the text missing to the right indicates the new floor joists
Thanks for that chappers i fully understand your drawing and impliment when i come to do it after the winter, just one other thing, next door is doing a loft conversion as we speak and i am a bit worried on how he is resting the joists on the front and back walls ontop of the footing plate which receives the rafters for the roof. Here is a pic of what he has done View media item 6833 As you can see he has had to cut the ends of the joists at such an angle to fit into the space, do you think this is sufficient as i beleie the joist has been weekend at the end were he has cut at an angle, what do you think????? also you said to use 8x2 does my span not require 9x2?. I have noticed that the bricks under my foot plate are a bit week only a few though do you think it would be ok to lay the joists on the plate like next doors? he seems to be going ahead with it. Regards Ian
Sorry to be a party-pooper here. You won't need Planning Permission unless your house is listed or in a sensitive conservation area - but you do need Building Regulations approval for the works you propose. If you don't need PP then no, the Council haven't the powers to stop you, only to prosecute you for contraventions of the Building Regs!
The current maximum fine is £5K per offence.
Lets see.... you've not applied to the Council, that's the first offence. No one has mentioned the requirement for a (correctly located and sized) means of escape window, offence two. I don't recall reading that you're installing a fire detection system, that's offence three. We're up to a maximum of £15,000 now - need I go on??
....and that's not to mention the devastation when you have to open up the constructions for the Council to inspect the work.
Don't mess about. Get to the local Council's Building Control Office, get the right information, do it right first time and add real value to your property. It will cost you negligible extra if you're proposing a good job in the first place.
By all means use this forum for constructional guidance - there's a lot of knowledge out there!
Good luck!
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Hi pj1 thanks for the advise/guidance!! i understand what you are saying and i am trying to get together all the info to go ahead and i must say i detest paying the council anymore than what i do i.e to empty my bin and and well thats all i can say.... my back lane never gets cleaned, i have not used the fire service in all my life nor the police and i pay for everything else like water insurance TV LICENSE, car insurance and so on so sorry i aint paying to do this, myself any my partner live in the house, cant have kids so no need to move ever!!!, i understand what you are saying and although i have not mentioned certain things i do plan to implement them when doing the conversion so at the end of the day as far as i am concerned it is loft storage and if they say what is the bed for i will reply for the spiders, but dont think it will come to that, i am putting veloux windows in which meet fire regulations as the escape will go straight onto my flat roof of an extension which has been put on the house, smoke alarms will go in without a doubt, electrcis will be done with a certificate to authenticate the installation, Chappers is helping me along with heights of head room i.e stairs and so on so if the council want to have a look it will be done to the regs or close to but hey it is storage space lol anyways if you can help me with advise it would be much appreciated as you seem clued up on this money grabbing con of building regulations. Regards Ian p.s hope your not a buildings reg's officer lol and no i aint telling you my address
Sorry!! I know the building regs are there to protect me in my property and neighbours and so on but i aint paying for some nob end of a pen pusher down the council office to **** me off but i do know why they are there!!! If theres a will there is a way.
I can only say that in my experience, yes of course there are a few as you describe, it's the nature of the job perhaps, but by and large, no longer true as a rule.
Be aware that a loft conversion is a loft conversion, whether it's for storage or sleeping makes no difference legally.
Also be aware that neighbours can be especially funny (and jealous)animals when you're doing betterment. lol
and more.............rules changed recently, you now need to 'get away with it' for two years 'till you can sleep soundly.
I'll follow your progress with interest!
Be aware that a loft conversion is a loft conversion, whether it's for storage or sleeping makes no difference legally.
Also be aware that neighbours can be especially funny (and jealous)animals when you're doing betterment. lol
and more.............rules changed recently, you now need to 'get away with it' for two years 'till you can sleep soundly.
I'll follow your progress with interest!
yep pack of animals at that mate lol. well the lad next door who is doing his is sound and the one to the other side is sound to so i am 100% i will have no problems as we all get on!! as for the 2 years is that set in stone as i saw something on the tv a while back totally different to me as he build a castle fit for the late henry and he got around that, so if i do it and after 2 years i can=t be prosecuted in any way, i would like some feedback on this one as its interesting
Firstly in response to you Ian. It is perfectly acceptable to chamfer the joist ends and it would be advisable to re-bed any loose bricks under the wall plate if you can, but to be perfectly honest if it is just the odd one then you should be ok.
8x2 is right on the limit for your span and better would be 8x3 or 9x2 use whatever you need to clear the 8x3 running eaves to eaves.
By the way I meant to ask the other day what height do you have at the ridge to the bottom of the existing ceiling joists and then at about 1200 from the spine wall, also from the existing ground floor to the ceiling.
In response to you PJ1 there is no requirement for a means of escape window now just a fire safe passage to an exit on the ground floor, but I would agrre that for a minimal extra cost if you plan to do the works yourself that it could all be legit. you can work under a building notice and just pay the relevant fee.
I did start off by explaining that this design would be sufficient to meet regs but it is up to maximus how he proceedes with regards to this.
whilst BC may not agree, its my opinion that doing it safely and correctly is far more important than any piece of paper from BC and maximus is just trying to do this.
8x2 is right on the limit for your span and better would be 8x3 or 9x2 use whatever you need to clear the 8x3 running eaves to eaves.
By the way I meant to ask the other day what height do you have at the ridge to the bottom of the existing ceiling joists and then at about 1200 from the spine wall, also from the existing ground floor to the ceiling.
In response to you PJ1 there is no requirement for a means of escape window now just a fire safe passage to an exit on the ground floor, but I would agrre that for a minimal extra cost if you plan to do the works yourself that it could all be legit. you can work under a building notice and just pay the relevant fee.
I did start off by explaining that this design would be sufficient to meet regs but it is up to maximus how he proceedes with regards to this.
whilst BC may not agree, its my opinion that doing it safely and correctly is far more important than any piece of paper from BC and maximus is just trying to do this.
chappers, from existing ground floor to ceiling is approx 11 feet (they are big height rooms like you get in older houses) and for the loft floor (ceiling joists) to the eves i have not measured but i am 6 foot 1 and with my arms fully strecthed up i cant get any were near them maybe the same again 10-11 foot to the eves. from were i am going to build the stud wall in the loft to the purlins i would say they are 4 1/2 to 5 feet from the ceiling joists may i ask why you are asking these measurements?? Regards Ian
was just wondering about head height s over your new staircase, sounds like you will have no problems with the existing ceiling it's the headheight as your staircase comes into the loft that may be abit more tricky as you have quite a lot of rise to fit into the space which will mean more going on the staircase to keep it within regs, it is still doable but may end up taking up more space in your loft.
yep chappers that came across my mind but looking at he height of the ceilings i think it is sufficent to have a straight run up with the stairs which will come out in the loft bang on in the middle of the room like in the picture
View media item 6928 so when i come into the loft it will be the full height of the eves. I have done in the drawing proposed to put 3x3 from the 5x1 ridge purlin to the purlins from gable to gable and then from them again to the 8x3 at the bottom near the footing plate to take any if there is load when i remove the diagonal struts with the flimsy piece of wood. I have to ask again sorry for this but when i notch the joists out under the eves will it be sufficient as this is playing on my mind? here is a pic again
View media item 6833 as only say 4 inchs will be sitting on the footing plate and such a chunk cut out will this not weaken the joist
One other thing you mentioned with regards to a fire exit from the stairs! as it stands at the moment the room were the stairs are in is the sitting room and on the other side of the spine wall is a bedroom which we are making the sitting room and the loft into a bedroom, The room with the stairs in has a door at either side which leads to the passage with the front door and the other exit door to the room leads to the extension which is a kitchen and then out the main back door to the yard, do i have to make any alterations to means of escape or with tis having 2 doors as means of escape to the room and the veloux windows int he loft are also going to be escape points onto the flat extension roof. what are your view on this?
Thanks Ian
View media item 6928 so when i come into the loft it will be the full height of the eves. I have done in the drawing proposed to put 3x3 from the 5x1 ridge purlin to the purlins from gable to gable and then from them again to the 8x3 at the bottom near the footing plate to take any if there is load when i remove the diagonal struts with the flimsy piece of wood. I have to ask again sorry for this but when i notch the joists out under the eves will it be sufficient as this is playing on my mind? here is a pic again
View media item 6833 as only say 4 inchs will be sitting on the footing plate and such a chunk cut out will this not weaken the joist
One other thing you mentioned with regards to a fire exit from the stairs! as it stands at the moment the room were the stairs are in is the sitting room and on the other side of the spine wall is a bedroom which we are making the sitting room and the loft into a bedroom, The room with the stairs in has a door at either side which leads to the passage with the front door and the other exit door to the room leads to the extension which is a kitchen and then out the main back door to the yard, do i have to make any alterations to means of escape or with tis having 2 doors as means of escape to the room and the veloux windows int he loft are also going to be escape points onto the flat extension roof. what are your view on this?
Thanks Ian
here are some pics of my sitting room at the moment with the 2 doors
View media item 6929View media item 6930
View media item 6929View media item 6930
You should be fine chamfering your joist ends under the eaves unless you have a particularly shallow roof which it doesn't sound like you have, this is quite normal practice.
With regards to your head height just be a bit careful under your purlin wall as you wont be able to open up the stairway any further back than the purlin, you may have to think about putting a turn towards the top to keep the lower parts of the parts of the staircase under the purlin, remember you have quite high ceilings so will need alongish staircase to keep within regs.
With regards to fire regs you would normally need a fire safe passage out of the house but as you are only converting the second storey rather than the third the regs are a bit more relaxed there is no need to upgrade any fire protection and your staircase can come down into another room, so long as it isn't the kitchen, the rules used to be that any windows in a bungalow loft (apart from bathrooms) had to be means of escape, but since the relaxation of that rule for 3rd storey loft conversions , i'm not sure if that still applies, I suspect it still would as people don't mind escaping from the first floor windows.
Hope that helps
Regards
gareth
With regards to your head height just be a bit careful under your purlin wall as you wont be able to open up the stairway any further back than the purlin, you may have to think about putting a turn towards the top to keep the lower parts of the parts of the staircase under the purlin, remember you have quite high ceilings so will need alongish staircase to keep within regs.
With regards to fire regs you would normally need a fire safe passage out of the house but as you are only converting the second storey rather than the third the regs are a bit more relaxed there is no need to upgrade any fire protection and your staircase can come down into another room, so long as it isn't the kitchen, the rules used to be that any windows in a bungalow loft (apart from bathrooms) had to be means of escape, but since the relaxation of that rule for 3rd storey loft conversions , i'm not sure if that still applies, I suspect it still would as people don't mind escaping from the first floor windows.
Hope that helps
Regards
gareth
chappers your a legend
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