New 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit - metal or plastic?

[ElliotW]

Hi,

We had an electrical report done on a flat we have bought showing that we had a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit which needs to be replaced to meet new standards.

From some research I understand that they should be metal, or at least that the consensus is metal units are better? Is this the case as one electrician I got a quote from said "I would use a plastic consumer unit. As long as RCD & MCB in there. It's up to standard." Is this true? I'm aware the regulations are changing 1st January 2016 so after then would a plastic one be non regulation anyway it would it be fine as others have told me 'it would be a metal one not a cheap plastic one?

Is there any type/brand I should ask for if it is no problem to be a plastic one?

Thanks

 

[OwainDIYer]

We had an electrical report done on a flat we have bought showing that we had a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit which needs to be replaced to meet new standards.

You would have. Amendment 3 isn't in force yet and has only been published for a few months.

There is no general requirement to replace electrical items to meet current standards, and even less requirement to replace them to meet standards which aren't in force yet.

The Amendment requires consumer units to be non-combustible, which they should already be anyway as it's been a requirement for connections to be enclosed in a non-combustible enclosure for yonks (which is why we started using metal and plastic consumer units and pattresses instead of ones made of wood).

Plastic CU manufacturers will probably start marking their CUs as Amendment 3 compliant quite soon now; some may already do.

 

[ElliotW]

We had an electrical report done on a flat we have bought showing that we had a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit which needs to be replaced to meet new standards.

You would have. Amendment 3 isn't in force yet and has only been published for a few months.

There is no general requirement to replace electrical items to meet current standards, and even less requirement to replace them to meet standards which aren't in force yet.

The Amendment requires consumer units to be non-combustible, which they should already be anyway as it's been a requirement for connections to be enclosed in a non-combustible enclosure for yonks (which is why we started using metal and plastic consumer units and pattresses instead of ones made of wood).

Plastic CU manufacturers will probably start marking their CUs as Amendment 3 compliant quite soon now; some may already do.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, csn you explain what your 'you would have' comment referring to?

Just to clarify the wording on the report said
"Non 17th edition amendment 3 all metal consumer unit with RCD protection on all circuits required"
If I remember rightly the last electrical check was in 1997 so perhaps that's why it needs replacing too!?

So I suppose my question is was the electrician who did the report wrong and it doesn't need to be metal or is the electrician quoting saying it can be plastic in the wrong?

Whilst I understand there are no requirements to meet standards not in place yet, surely it makes sense to put in a consumer unit which will meet them knowing that they will be requirements in 3 months time? This is also what I was just told by another qualified electrician.

Thanks

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We had an electrical report done on a flat we have bought showing that we had a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit which needs to be replaced to meet new standards.

If you have not yet paid for that report then do not.

If you have paid for it then bang in a "small claim" for a refund.

If that is what they said in the report then either:

1) They are lying (i.e. deliberately telling you something they know to be untrue)

or

2) They are incompetent, they have no understanding of how the regulations work, and are not able to provide a service which is fit for purpose.

Either way they have arguably committed a criminal offence, and you should certainly not pay them for a sub-standard service.

 

[JohnW2]

Just to clarify the wording on the report said
"Non 17th edition amendment 3 all metal consumer unit with RCD protection on all circuits required"

Did it really say that - i.e. that a "Non-17th edition Amd3 all metal CU" is required?!! If so, that makes even less sense.

As for "RCD protection on all circuits", there is no regulation which explicitly requires that, even for new installations. Many of the circuits may require RCD protection for one reason or another (although there is no retrospective requirement to bring an existing installation up to current standards), but there may be some that don't require RCD protection, even in a new installation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So I suppose my question is was the electrician who did the report wrong

In a word, yes.

Give him the legal equivalent of a punch in the face and a "give me my money back you thieving *!"&$^*'~*"

Whilst I understand there are no requirements to meet standards not in place yet,

There is no requirement to change existing things to meet standard in place now.

surely it makes sense to put in a consumer unit which will meet them knowing that they will be requirements in 3 months time? This is also what I was just told by another qualified electrician.

No doubt by a qualified electrical charlatan trying to defraud you.

 

[ElliotW]

We had an electrical report done on a flat we have bought showing that we had a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit which needs to be replaced to meet new standards.

If you have not yet paid for that report then do not.

If you have paid for it then bang in a "small claim" for a refund.

If that is what they said in the report then either:

1) They are lying (i.e. deliberately telling you something they know to be untrue)

or

2) They are incompetent, they have no understanding of how the regulations work, and are not able to provide a service which is fit for purpose.

Either way they have arguably committed a criminal offence, and you should certainly not pay them for a sub-standard service.

Just to clarify, the

So I suppose my question is was the electrician who did the report wrong

In a word, yes.

Give him the legal equivalent of a punch in the face and a "give me my money back you thieving *!"&$^*'~*"

Whilst I understand there are no requirements to meet standards not in place yet,

There is no requirement to change existing things to meet standard in place now.

surely it makes sense to put in a consumer unit which will meet them knowing that they will be requirements in 3 months time? This is also what I was just told by another qualified electrician.

No doubt by a qualified electrical charlatan trying to defraud you.

Sorry on your last point.. i don't understand why if it will be regulation in 3 months, its a bad idea to install something which will meet regulations for the foreseeable future, rather than something which will only meet regulations for less than 3 months, can you explain that please?

Can you advise what would you recommend me to get done and why?

Thanks,

Elliot

 

[EFLImpudence]

There have been improvements to the safety requirements for motor vehicles since you bought your car.

You need to buy a new one.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Would you be having the CU replaced anyway, for other reasons, no matter what the report had said?

And if you were, would you want a metal one installed for your own reasons, no mater what the report had said?

 

[JohnW2]

surely it makes sense to put in a consumer unit which will meet them knowing that they will be requirements in 3 months time? This is also what I was just told by another qualified electrician.

No doubt by a qualified electrical charlatan trying to defraud you.

Sorry on your last point.. i don't understand why if it will be regulation in 3 months, its a bad idea to install something which will meet regulations for the foreseeable future, rather than something which will only meet regulations for less than 3 months, can you explain that please?

In many senses, it probably does make sense to anticipate an imminent change of regulations. I think BAS's point was probably that if you had a CU (which did not meed the Amd3 requirements, whatever they may be!) installed before the end of this year then there would never be a requirement to bring it up to 1.1.16 standards, even if it remained in service for 40 years.

Can you advise what would you recommend me to get done and why?

IMO .... IF there are other reasons for having the CU replaced (and it sounds as if there may be), then it would probably 'make sense' to have one installed that would be compliant with Amd3, even if it is installed before the end of this year. The problem is that the regulation is so badly written that no-one really knows what it means, so most electricians will undoubtedly 'play safe' by installing metal ones.

What you should not do is let yourself be talked into having the CU changed to a metal one just because of the upcoming change in regulations (i.e. if there are no other legitimate reasons for needing a new CU).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

There are thousands and thousands of houses in the UK which have elderly fuseboards aged 20, 30 or 40 years. These may have re-wireable fuses and may have no RCD protection whatsoever.
These installations will have been installed to meet the regulations at the time of installation. There will have been many new regulations brought in since the time of their installation.

There is no requirement to change or bring these existing installations in line with today's regulations (or tomorrow's).
The only issue is where NEW work is done on those installations. In that case the NEW work has to comply with the regulations in force at the time the NEW work is done.
That may require an RCD to be provided for the NEW work. The existing installation can continue as it is, you do not need to upgrade the lot.

Think of car production, its the same.
My first car was an Austin A35.

If I had kept it, could I use on today's roads? YES.
Does the A35 meet today's car safety and build regulations? NO.
Would I need to have the car constantly upgraded to keep pace with motor manufacturing regulations? NO.

 

[OwainDIYer]

We had an electrical report done on a flat we have bought showing that we had a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit which needs to be replaced to meet new standards.

You would have.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, csn you explain what your 'you would have' comment referring to?

You would have a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit (unless it's been installed in the last few weeks). We all have.

Amendment 3 is not just about metal/plastic, there are also requirements for the form of door hinge over the circuit breakers and sealing round the cable holes.

Can you post a photo of your existing consumer unit then we can determine if you need a new one, and why

 

[EFLImpudence]

Amendment 3 is not just about metal/plastic, there are also requirements for the form of door hinge over the circuit breakers and sealing round the cable holes.

Not in the wiring regulations.

Any such will have been made up since by people who think they know.

 

[OwainDIYer]

Think of car production, its the same.
My first car was an Austin A35.

If I had kept it, could I use on today's roads? YES.
Does the A35 meet today's car safety and build regulations? NO.
Would I need to have the car constantly upgraded to keep pace with motor manufacturing regulations? NO.

Although there are some regulations which do apply - if you want to use your car as a taxi you probably can't as it's too old. You might have to fit fixed head restraints if you want to take a driving test in it. Etc.

And for electric wiring there are regulations which can require updating wiring - safety of rented property, or being a childminder in the house, etc. But they usually require making safe, not complying with current regs. Even the Building Regs only require a standard of safety, not complying with IET Regs.

There are probably a lot of new built houses where the wiring doesn't comply with the current regs ...

 

[ElliotW]

[/QUOTE]

You would have a non 17th edition amendment 3 consumer unit (unless it's been installed in the last few weeks). We all have.

Amendment 3 is not just about metal/plastic, there are also requirements for the form of door hinge over the circuit breakers and sealing round the cable holes.

Can you post a photo of your existing consumer unit then we can determine if you need a new one, and why[/QUOTE]

I've attached a photo,does that help things? We need an electric shower fitted which the original electrician who did the report didn't know at the time. But the latter one said it needs to be replaced to enable the electric shower to be installed.

Thanks