new veissman

[Agile]

Transam has a problem with just ONE manufacturer's engineer who is slightly odd as I might put it.

Joe, I think you are rather missing the point. The regulations state that the pressure loss in the gas pipe should not exceed 1.0 mB.

If its more than 1.0 mB then it does not meet the regulations. BUT the boiler will most likely STILL work fine!

Its normal in my view for an independent service agent to give you his card. Thats not because he wants to upgrade the gas supply because if the RGI has done it wrong then its his responsible for correcting it. The service engineer gives you his card to identify himself and to enable you to contact him with any further queries.

Yesterday I went to set up a boiler which had been serviced by another firm and was not working properly since. Two engineers has spent over TWO hours there, could not set the boiler properly and had it giving 155 ppm of CO. They then said they would have to condemn the boiler and leave it of. They charged £100 !

The owner called me and within 10 min I had set it so it gave just 38 ppm. It was slightly more difficult to set up than most because the gas pipe was rather undersized and the meter govenor was a little unstable.

In spite of all you have said Joe, you have never quoted what the actual pressure loss on your gas supply really is.

Tony

 

[mickyg]

2 things that stick out for me here(as someone who was considering installing Viessmann boilers).
1) They use agents, which I dont like for reasons we can see in this post, and I've never had a positive experience with a service agent, they run down the installer and try and steal customers, it goes on all the time.
2) Its been mentioned that if he couldn't find a problem he'd have to charge £60??? Really? stuff that then. I'll stick with manufacturers who use direct labour and don't have a charging policy for inconclusive visits.

 

[mickyg]

Every boiler on the UK market should work perfectly at 14mbar. Thats the benchmark they have to work to when designing boilers.

Hi Mickyg, doesn,t boiler size come into the equation?

Doesnt matter what the boiler is, if its got 14mb on the inlet it should work perfectly, its a British Standard for boiler design/manufacture.

 

[joesoap1]

Transam has a problem with just ONE manufacturer's engineer who is slightly odd as I might put it.

Joe, I think you are rather missing the point. The regulations state that the pressure loss in the gas pipe should not exceed 1.0 mB.

If its more than 1.0 mB then it does not meet the regulations. BUT the boiler will most likely STILL work fine!

Its normal in my view for an independent service agent to give you his card. Thats not because he wants to upgrade the gas supply because if the RGI has done it wrong then its his responsible for correcting it. The service engineer gives you his card to identify himself and to enable you to contact him with any further queries.

Yesterday I went to set up a boiler which had been serviced by another firm and was not working properly since. Two engineers has spent over TWO hours there, could not set the boiler properly and had it giving 155 ppm of CO. They then said they would have to condemn the boiler and leave it of. They charged £100 !

The owner called me and within 10 min I had set it so it gave just 38 ppm. It was slightly more difficult to set up than most because the gas pipe was rather undersized and the meter govenor was a little unstable.

In spite of all you have said Joe, you have never quoted what the actual pressure loss on your gas supply really is.

Tony

View media item 31081 View media item 31081 Hi Tony, I understand what you say.This is the original report given to me when the RGI commissioned the boiler.As you can see, the figures differ to the other set I supplied.All I know is I was told the loss was within the manufacturers parameters, so pipe upgrade wasn,t nescessary.As regards the card, WHY would I require the Engineers card, as end user, my contract is with Viessmann and RGI.He insisted I keep it, and to phone him if required.This didn,t go down well at all with RGI,and Manager, as they called him out, not me.The manager commandeered the card, obviously to repremand him, or why take it.I can only supply the figures given to me.the RGI said he was allowed 1mb loss, but when I asked at time of commission, the meter was 20mb, and boiler was 18.8mb.1.2 loss.but looking at his report, this doesn,t tally.I really don,t know which figures are correct, because,as you know there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.I am probably more than 1 bar loss and running ok, but the paperwork doesn,t seem to show that.If the RGI and Manager didn,t send the Engineer out, I would be non the wiser, and just assumed that I am getting what it says on the tin.It,s them that,s opened a can of worms.and I think hey are regretting it now.The reason I chose a viessmann trained RGI was so I didn,t have this type of problem.I said if upgrade was required after instalation, I would have it done and pay, no quibbles.so I don,t see any need to put ficticious data down, if that,s what,s happened

 

[joesoap1]

does not look good on viessmann to have engineers running about giving out cards, stealing customers from RGI by claiming their work is sub standard...

think I may flag this for transam as he likes to hear about stuff like this

I am presuming that was his intention,I cannot think of another logical reason.The RGI and Manager didn,t say why they took it away, it must be Viessmann policy not to give cards out when attending their work.I really don,t know what to think anymore.I haven,t got it now.At the time I didn,t give it a thought, until manager remarked as to why I had it.I just assumed, as Tony said, it was ID.The mind boggles.I thought Viessman would send their own Engineer out, not a sub contractor, but apparently, there are only a fewof them,used mainly on commercial stuff.He didn,t offer to do the upgrade, he just said, you have my card if you need me.WHY would I need him?

 

[mysteryman]

One incident such as this does not mean that the make of boiler is wrong. I still don't see what the problem with the boiler was, and it is all OK now.

 

[Agile]

Joe, I would still say that you dont know what the pipe loss actually is.

In many ways its totally academic but its a standard that we are expected to install to and Gas Safe will issue a defects notice to us if the loss is greater.

With most boilers they will work fine down to about 16 mB or lower.

HOWEVER like the boiler I went to last Thursday, if teh pipe loss is higher then the boiler is difficult to set up and may well not meet the makers performance because the settings for boiler min are so different from the max. Thats why the previous engineers had a problem.

Service agents come faster because they are more of them.

My view is that they should give their name and number so you can contact them. BG are a pain. They dont give names or numbers and once they leave you are stuck for days if it fails after 30 minutes.

With your Viessmann if you had that engineers number you could have called him back immediately if there was any further problem.

Tony

 

[joesoap1]

Joe, I would still say that you dont know what the pipe loss actually is.

In many ways its totally academic but its a standard that we are expected to install to and Gas Safe will issue a defects notice to us if the loss is greater.

With most boilers they will work fine down to about 16 mB or lower.

HOWEVER like the boiler I went to last Thursday, if teh pipe loss is higher then the boiler is difficult to set up and may well not meet the makers performance because the settings for boiler min are so different from the max. Thats why the previous engineers had a problem.

Service agents come faster because they are more of them.

My view is that they should give their name and number so you can contact them. BG are a pain. They dont give names or numbers and once they leave you are stuck for days if it fails after 30 minutes.

With your Viessmann if you had that engineers number you could have called him back immediately if there was any further problem.

Tony

Hi Tony, I believe you are correct.I do not know the actual loss , but I did ask the RGI at time of commissioning, and althouh I cannot hand on heart state it, I am 99% certain it was as I stated, 1.2mb loss.which he probably assumed was not worth renewing pipework for, although, it would take no more than a hour to replace 2/3rds of it to a larger spec.which I was prepared to pay for if he decided to do it.However, he didn,t, but the other Engineer deemed it nescessary in his report.The Manager, my friend, I think, was playing devils advocate, he stated to me, in his opinion, he wouldn,t bother upgrading pipe, that was good enough for me, as he also claimed, the boiler was functioning correctly.As a retired engineer, who is familiar with Boyles law etc, the regs suit some people when they are flogging stuff, just like the £100 Honeywell wireless roomstat with max and min temps, something I really could well do without, but had it "REGS was the buzz word then". but when the 1 mb loss reg was mentioned, it was conveniently skirted around.I have worked with Regs all my life, and still cannot get away from the damn things..As regards the card, that,s a problem for them to sort out, but listening to the asides between RGI and Manager, it would appear this Engineer has done something prior to my visit to warrant investigation.but why send him if his work is suspect? That,s not my problem as I say, as long as the boiler is ok, and a few years down the line, the drop doesn,t come to light and negate a future claim under the 5 year warrantee, due to wrong RGI installation.I think it,s time to put it to bed, and see what the boiler does, and see if MM,s estimation of them, as I have been following them in the past, are justified.Cheers and thanks for everything

 

[mysteryman]

I do not believe that 'the guy's work was suspect'. There may have been other issues.

As long as you have 17.5mb at the multifunctional gas valve inlet, it is OK. There is no safety or performance issue. As any RGI knows, the manufacturer's requirements are what matter here.

 

[mickyg]

I do not believe that 'the guy's work was suspect'. There may have been other issues.
.

even though he wrote 2 completely different reports? Did you not see them? Is this common practice then??

I think you should be honest with people when you post that you work for Viessmann so they know why your recommending an protecting them

 

[mehran]

getting abit pissy now are we

we don't live in Germany, viessmann are not perfect and clearly something here went wrong with the customer service.

you clearly work for viessmann so no need to be shy about it, not going to hold it again you that your a company man through and though.

 

[mickyg]

I will not discuss who I am or where I work.

I think you'll find most of the posters on here are pretty honest about who they are and what they do. It helps to gain trust and respect. There are guys on here(mainly in the CC) who work for manufacturers but are open about the fact. If you just come on a forum telling all and sundry that viessmann are the best, buy a viessmann, get a viessmann with WC, this and that, we are going to come to the conclusion you work for them and your actions are Advertising, in the cheapest and lowest form. One things for certain your not doing the brand any good.

 

[Gasman77]

I'm with Mick on this, and I think Viessmann boilers are ok, but i'm independant so its ok for me to say that. An employee constantly spamming a forum is not a good look, comes over as desparate.

 

[simond]

I'm finding it very difficult to follow JSoap's unpunctuated postings.

I do wonder whether the Viessmann service tech (whether a subby or not) was referring to the central heating pipe sizing as to the possible cause of the boiler running up high temps.

We have Viessmann subcontractors going out to warranty work on boilers we've fitted and I can't find any fault with them.

in my experience there is a new regime in Viessmann, and I have only seen good things come from it.

 

[Norcon]

I'm finding it very difficult to follow JSoap's unpunctuated postings

My eyes blur over with posts like that so just pass them by.
Not that I'm any help any way but the OP is certainly not helping himself with incoherent ramblings like that imho.