No lights after installing new roses

[gerbils]

OK so I decided to get rid of the chandeliers in my house and replace them with 3 basic ceiling roses; I've already done this in a few rooms but something has gone wrong and we have no lights in the living room or in the porch & outside (of which I didn't touch!).

The wife is not happy with me

I have attached a diagram and would be over the moon if anyone could see any problems. I'd rather not employ an engineer to fix my bad DIY and would genuinely like to learn how to do this right. It's been keeping me awake last night :/

The issue is that the lights in the living room now won't turn on. No fuses are blown, and light #3 works fine, it's also the lights in the porch and oustide that I have since realised are also affected.

I wired lights 1 & 2 as per the instructions on the new rose itself, rather than copying what had been done before (big mistake I know). I identified which were the switch wires with my multimeter and you can see those marked in light #1. For light #2 there were seemingly no switch wires so I put them in the place where the other non-switch wires went in light #1. I have since used my head and moved these so the red is in the live box, but it hasn't helped.

Maybe of use: Since wiring up light #3 I now get a negative result when testing for switch wires on light #1...so I assume the circuit is broken somewhere?

Also note I have a dimmer switch in the living room.

I have a diagram and have posted it below - the porch is to the left of light #3.

 

[Deryck Tintagel]

With L3 ON, does light L1 work?

L2 will not work as switch live is not connected to the lamp

 

[Taylortwocities]

L2 will not work as switch live is not connected to the lamp

To fix that one, move the red wire - that you have put in the loop terminal in the middle - to be next to the brown wire.

For light #3, I am going to guess that you have mixed up your reds.

EDIT: There seems to be some writing on the cables in the pic for light #3. Maybe there is a clue there.....

 

[gerbils]

To fix that one, move the red wire - that you have put in the loop terminal in the middle - to be next to the brown wire.

For light #3, I am going to guess that you have mixed up your reds.

EDIT: There seems to be some writing on the cables in the pic for light #3. Maybe there is a clue there.....

Hi - thanks for helping.

I brought a new (better quality) rose that is easier to swap cables around and in doing so I now have all lights working, but now the ones in the living room are very dim. So gutted.

Here is a diagram of the latest setup.

I marked the cables myself to identify the 2 switch cables (the one nearest the light and the one at the other end of the hall).

I have also swapped out a dimmer switch from the living room and replaced with a regular switch.

 

[gerbils]

Thanks for helping.

So I have put on a new rose (light #3) just so it's easier to swap cables. I have also replaced the dimmer in the living room with a lightswitch and I now have lights working in all rooms, but now the 2 in the living room are very dim.

This is driving me a little crazy.

The writing on the cables was done by me, just to assist getting help. I identified the 2 switches in the hall that's all.

Here is the new rose setup.

http://i.imgur.com/nsSYAdG.jpg

 

[Taylortwocities]

Hmm but only one of the switches will go to the rose! Thats assuming both switches operate the one light (ie two-way operation).

If the lights are dim then you have got a lot of that wiring wrong with two lamps in series, somehow.

There are 4 cables there. My expectation is that you should have

one cable from the switch
one cable = power feed in
one cable = power feed out
one cable =feed to porch light

By the way, you havent said if there is a switch for that porch light, somewhere???

You now are going to need a two-probe voltage tester, or a multimeter. OR (probably) an electrician on site.

Buy her some flowers or a bottle of Merlot, or a head torch - it may help.

 

[gerbils]

Haha

Yes there are 2 switches in the hall - both operate the same bulb so I can turn it on one end, walk to the other end and turn it off.

There is a switch for the porch to the left of bulb #3

 

[securespark]

The cable you have labelled "switch 2" is either feed in or feed out.

Is the unlabelled black blob at the other end of the room to light 3 the porch light?

If you have dim lamps, one possible cause is a mix up of the neutrals (all black) and switch wires (black with red sleeving on).

You will need to test, but light number 1 could simply be a switched live and neutral into the rose and a switched live and neutral out.

 

[securespark]

You could have mixed up the reds in #3.

You need to check with a MM if, with the dimmer on, you have a voltage on one of those pairs in light #1.

The fact there are two wires there may suggest it is the end of a circuit, but if there is another rose in the same room working off the same switch, it could well be wired red to red and black to black in the rose.

 

[gerbils]

You could have mixed up the reds in #3.

You need to check with a MM if, with the dimmer on, you have a voltage on one of those pairs in light #1.

The fact there are two wires there may suggest it is the end of a circuit, but if there is another rose in the same room working off the same switch, it could well be wired red to red and black to black in the rose.

So if I understand you correctly I should move both black wires to share 1 hole and both red wires to one hole?

I am 99.9% sure I have rose #3 correct as going through it wire by wire there is only 2 ways I can configure it and I have tried both, whereas rose #1 I didn't look how they had it before so if that's the problem rose, that makes sense to me.

 

[securespark]

Regardless of how rose #1 is wired, I don't think it is the cause of your problems.

So if I understand you correctly I should move both black wires to share 1 hole and both red wires to one hole?

Not without checking their function with the MM, no.

If those two cables are a feed and a drop to the dimmer switch in the lounge, then putting the two blacks together would cause a dead short and damage your dimmer.

If you test one and it has a voltage on with the dimmer fully wound up, that is the feed. If the other one bells out when you short the wires at the rose with one cable feeding it, that will be the switched feed to that rose.

 

[gerbils]

Thanks for persisting with me securespark!

I did identify the switch cables when I first swapped the rose, the MM beeped and it didn't on the other 2 cables - but now I get no beep (though those 2 cables do jump up in number)

 

[securespark]

Is the unlabelled black blob at the other end of the room to light 3 the porch light?

 

[securespark]

Thanks for persisting with me securespark!

I did identify the switch cables when I first swapped the rose, the MM beeped and it didn't on the other 2 cables - but now I get no beep (though those 2 cables do jump up in number)

A continuity test, to check which is the switch wire or the cable to the rose with just one cable feeding it, is always a dead test with power off, whereas a voltage test is a live test done with power on.

Did you find mains voltage on the pair that did not give you a continuity beep?

 

[gerbils]

A continuity test, to check which is the switch wire or the cable to the rose with just one cable feeding it, is always a dead test with power off, whereas a voltage test is a live test done with power on.

Did you find mains voltage on the pair that did not give you a continuity beep?

Hmm put my mm on and it went bang and tripped the fuse, now i need new pants.