No master socket. Where is the demarcation point?

[RRAway]

As far as I can tell, the property I have just moved into has no master socket. This seems a bit strange as it's only 10-12 years old and I would have thought it should have one? I'm not 100% sure where the demarcation point is because of this.

The line from the street enters into the garage into this small gray box.

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• RRAway
• 21 Jan 2014
• 1

From there the white cable leaves the box, runs under the garden and into the utility cupboard. The wire are connected straight into the Krone blocks which link in all the other phone sockets in the house (The bundle from the outside box is the thick collection of wires on the outside left of the loom, 2 wires from the bundle join a Krone block at the bottom).

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• RRAway
• 21 Jan 2014
• 1

There is no master socket. This raises my first question of what is BT's and what is ours? It also means we are lacking the standard surge protection.

What I am thinking of doing is putting in a master socket before the Krone blocks (i.e. moving the thick bundle to go to the socket, and using the extension from the socket to join the Krone and the rest of the plates around the house). I intend to do centralised filtering at the new socket, so house faceplates are phone only. Not sure which faceplate/socket I need for this?

The goal is to have the ADSL modem/router in this cupboard and feed straight form the new socket.

 

[Bodgeitandleggit]

As far as I can tell, the property I have just moved into has no master socket. This seems a bit strange as it's only 10-12 years old and I would have thought it should have one? I'm not 100% sure where the demarcation point is because of this.

The line from the street enters into the garage into this small gray box.

Untitled

• RRAway
• 21 Jan 2014
• 1

From there the white cable leaves the box, runs under the garden and into the utility cupboard. The wire are connected straight into the Krone blocks which link in all the other phone sockets in the house (The bundle from the outside box is the thick collection of wires on the outside left of the loom, 2 wires from the bundle join a Krone block at the bottom).

Untitled

• RRAway
• 21 Jan 2014
• 1

There is no master socket. This raises my first question of what is BT's and what is ours? It also means we are lacking the standard surge protection.

What I am thinking of doing is putting in a master socket before the Krone blocks (i.e. moving the thick bundle to go to the socket, and using the extension from the socket to join the Krone and the rest of the plates around the house). I intend to do centralised filtering at the new socket, so house faceplates are phone only. Not sure which faceplate/socket I need for this?

The goal is to have the ADSL modem/router in this cupboard and feed straight form the new socket.

You have 2 cable coming out...where does the black one go?? ..that could be where your nte is on the end of that..I suspect who ever had the premises before you was working from home as there maybe a couple of lines going in there...contact your SP as this is a new line you should not be charged for it.

 

[cajar]

I think the dropwire might be the feed as the white cable could be the 10pr internal at the krone strips. op, as you know they're supposed to give you a master socket, but if nothing gets done id say your demarcation point would be at the krone strips as this is how Bt present business lines to a customer owned switchboard.

 

[kbdiy]

If it were me I would terminate the white-blue/blue-white pair from the 10pr cable (I assume it is 10pr) onto a spare pair on a Krone strip then join a short cable (prob 3pr - only using the blue pair) from there to an NTE5 as the incoming pair, mounted adjacent to the box conn. The line can then return from the customer side of the NTE using the orange pair in the same 3pr cable, terminate on another spare on the Krone strip and then jumper it away to the internal sockets, which are presumably all terminated on the other Krone strips?

EDIT: to make a neater job of the box conn I would reterminate all the internal 3(?) pairs on to the Krone strips by feeding them down the back of the strips rather than round the outside as they are at present, terminating them on the top terminals on the Krone strips. This is the correct way to do permanent wiring. I would terminate the 10 pr in the same way. Then it is simply a case of jumpering between the required connections and tracing faults becomes much easier.

 

[RRAway]

I think the dropwire might be the feed as the white cable could be the 10pr internal at the krone strips.

Yeah that's right. The black dropwire is the feed and goes underground to the BT manhole in the street. The white 10pr goes from the garage to the utility cupboard. That grey box just links them together.

If it were me I would terminate the white-blue/blue-white pair from the 10pr cable (I assume it is 10pr) onto a spare pair on a Krone strip then join a short cable (prob 3pr - only using the blue pair) from there to an NTE5 as the incoming pair, mounted adjacent to the box conn. The line can then return from the customer side of the NTE using the orange pair in the same 3pr cable, terminate on another spare on the Krone strip and then jumper it away to the internal sockets, which are presumably all terminated on the other Krone strips?

EDIT: to make a neater job of the box conn I would reterminate all the internal 3(?) pairs on to the Krone strips by feeding them down the back of the strips rather than round the outside as they are at present, terminating them on the top terminals on the Krone strips. This is the correct way to do permanent wiring. I would terminate the 10 pr in the same way. Then it is simply a case of jumpering between the required connections and tracing faults becomes much easier.

Thanks, I think this is what I will do. Also means if BT ever take issue then I've not actually changed any of "their" cabling.

The internal wires are 4 pair, with 1 disused (it's just Cat5e), going to the internal phone sockets. There's 20 of them in total (that isn't very clear in the picture). 2 pairs of cat5e to each internal phone socket, one for phone, and one which I intend to purpose as Ethernet later. They have been correctly wired to the permanent side of the Krone already, so they just need squeezing behind them. I'll have a go and see what fits. Hopefully there's enough space.

Many thanks.

 

[Lectrician]

Is that box con and krone strips BT branded? Usually BT on the middle of the krone, and BT on the lid Center.

 

[RRAway]

Is that box con and krone strips BT branded? Usually BT on the middle of the krone, and BT on the lid Center.

The box and strips are not branded.

 

[Lectrician]

Then I would say the demarcation point is the grey BT66B joint. Certainly not correct. It all looks like a bit of a bodge.

 

[bernardgreen]

On a normal commercial multi line installation the punch down strips would be the de-markation point. Full line testing by OpenReach would not be possible as there would be no in service resistor or bell capacitor on the line if the customer di not use master sockets.

If this is gong to be a new domestic service then BT should arrange for a master socket to be installed as part of the new service. And remove the now redundant box and cabling.

 

[Lectrician]

If BT present to the krone strip, they usually fit surge arrestors onto the top of them too. These days, most installs will see ISDN, not PSTN for phone systems with several trunks. Still plenty of older PSTN types in service though.

As this box conn is not BT branded, they did not install it. It looks a friggin mess too - Not a BT installed one IMO.

These plug onto the top of the krone strips.

 

[SimonH2]

If it were me I would ...

What he said !

The "neat" way to do it is to terminate the 10 pair that comes from the incoming service box onto a Krone strip.
Terminate all your fixed cabling onto other terminal strips, passing them down the back.
Then jumper things around as needed.
For a plain old phone line, stick the master socket next to the box and jumper as required.

And find a lid for the box.

2 pairs of cat5e to each internal phone socket, one for phone, and one which I intend to purpose as Ethernet later.

You do know that ethernet requires a minimum of two pairs don't you ? And it would be daft not to wire all four pairs as that is needed for gigabit ethernet - two pairs will restrict you to 100 meg ethernet which is so 20th century

 

[RRAway]

Thanks guys. I've done this now and neatened it up a bit (there was also a cover for the box, it was just off for the photo). Internet connection is 4 times faster now which is great. No idea what the previous owners here were doing.

You do know that ethernet requires a minimum of two pairs don't you ? And it would be daft not to wire all four pairs as that is needed for gigabit ethernet - two pairs will restrict you to 100 meg ethernet which is so 20th century

You have misunderstood. I mean each room has 2 pairs of cat5e cabling going to it, not that I'm using 2 pairs from a single cable. 2 pairs, of 4 pair, so 8 pairs total. 3 pairs of 1 cable, being wired for phone, and 4 pairs of the other cable being used for ethernet.

 

[cajar]

2 pairs of 4 pair would be 16 pairs.

 

[RRAway]

2 pairs of 4 pair would be 16 pairs.

Ooops. 2 cables, 1 pair of cables per room, each of cable is 4 pair.

Either way, it's working nicely now!

 

[Lectrician]

Don't just connect three pairs for the phone. Connect the lot. All ports should be able to be used as phone or Ethernet.