Non-standard close coupling on old Twyford toilet

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by kemn, 28 Aug 2012.

  1. kemn

    Joined:
    28 Aug 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hi,

    My toilet flush gave up the ghost a few days ago. I'm pretty sure it just needs the syphon replaced, but when I removed the cistern I found that the connection for the closed coupling system on the pan is not standard.

    It's a Twyford toilet, was in the house when I bought it, and probably +30 years old. The pan has four bolt holes instead of the normal two, and they're shaped in a rectangle around the hole for the pipe. The fitting that was there when I took it apart was triangular, with two bolt holes, and had some kind of cork surround - can't tell exactly what because it was totally rotten!

    Has anyone come across this before, and do you know if I can get a replacement part that will fit?

    Thanks
     
  2. yerino

    Joined:
    29 Jun 2007
    Messages:
    301
    Thanks Received:
    46
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Have you got a picture?

    It sounds like it's a syphonic toilet working in conjunction with a syphonic syphon.

    Probably easier to just replace the toilet. But a picture will confirm this.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. kemn

    Joined:
    28 Aug 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Country:
    United Kingdom

    Pictures above. Suspect I'm going to have to replace the toilet!
     
  4. Burnerman

    Joined:
    7 Feb 2008
    Messages:
    12,997
    Thanks Received:
    2,663
    Location:
    Northumberland
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Just before you dive in (!) not all close coupling doughnut washers are the same....one make (I think its Ideal) have a much flatter and bigger diameter washer that could make the flush seal, and conical rubber bung washers between cistern and pan are available too.
    Plumbcenter do them, but so do the likes of toiletspares.co.uk.
    John :)
     
  5. JohnD

    Joined:
    15 Nov 2005
    Messages:
    38,238
    Thanks Received:
    1,522
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    let's have a look at the pan, preferably showing the water level, and, from the side, theshape of the trap round the back.

    if it really is a syphonic WC, they are much sought-after by people in the know.
     
  6. kemn

    Joined:
    28 Aug 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    More pictures - it's a very small bathroom, so angles not good, sorry. The water level in the picture is where it normally sits - I think in a siphon toilet it might be higher?

     
  7. kemn

    Joined:
    28 Aug 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Burnerman - thanks, will have a look. I'm less concerned about the donut / seal than about the layout of the bolt holes - I can only find plates that have two holes, in line with the pipe hole. I've got the original plate, which fits the bolt holes on the pan, but it's really corroded and I don't really want to use it. It also looks like there should be something between the cistern and the pan - there's a gap that was filled with (rotten) cork.
     
  8. denso13

    Joined:
    22 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    2,066
    Thanks Received:
    373
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. kemn

    Joined:
    28 Aug 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    denso13 - sounds good!
     
  10. JohnD

    Joined:
    15 Nov 2005
    Messages:
    38,238
    Thanks Received:
    1,522
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I and my family have had four syphonics between us, they all had a wide shallow sort of bowl with the water level looking higher and wider than yours, and a narrow-looking trap, so I don't think it is. However there may be other designs that I have not seen.

    I am still looking for a white syphonic pan for my current home as I like them so much. In my previous house the syphonic WC cost more than the whole of the rest of the bathroom suite put together :eek:

    edit
    That metal plate is Retail Price: £35.08
    :eek: :eek: :eek:
     
  11. mysteryman

    Joined:
    5 Jun 2010
    Messages:
    1,664
    Thanks Received:
    233
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It might be worth getting in touch with Twyfords. There were double trap and single trap syphonic pans. The double trap versions have an air extractor which sits in the outlet of the syphon in the cistern. This engages with, and must be airtight with, the inner hole in the pan below the cistern. There should be a mushroom shaped washer on the bottom of the air exctractor. If this is not all present and correct, the bog will not flush properly. The water level in the pan should drop as the vacuum is created by the air extractor, then rise again, and all contents will flush away. It looks from your photos as if this is a syphonic, there were many versions.

    It is many years since I worked on one of these, but as far as I remember, the four bolt hole versions were all double trap syphonic and did not have a metal plate between the cistern and pan. The four bolts went through holes in the base of the cistern with rubber washers to make it watertight. I think there have been various conversion kits over the years, but if someone has put non-standard parts on your bog, it may need putting back to what Twyfords intended. You will not find much compatibility with other makes. Some of these had ceramic syphons, some in two parts.

    One of my sons calls these a 'sucker bog' - you get the picture. As far as I know, all this info is correct, I've seen many different ones over the years. My apologies if I am wrong.

    These types were fashionable from the 1940s onwards till about the early 1970s. They were always very expensive.
     
  12. JohnD

    Joined:
    15 Nov 2005
    Messages:
    38,238
    Thanks Received:
    1,522
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I am delighted to say I have now managed to get a NOS Twyfords syphonic pan, from the cellar of a retired plumber.

    I am now setting about locating the other parts needed to get it sucking.
     

Share This Page