Outdoor Socket

[owe]

My mates just moved in to a new place and has one of these on the outside wall that the previous guy had fitted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Masterplu...-Twin-Socket-RCD-Protected-Plug-/400781158453

my questions are

Are these legal to fit yourself?
Don't you have to be Part P cert to fit these? I'm pretty sure the guy that fitted this wasn't and did it himself.

The flex is 1.25mm, is this only suitable for low voltage stuff?
My mate wants to use it for his lawn mower and other power tools, but I didn't think it was suitable for that... but what do I know I'm not a spark so that why I thought I'd ask here.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are these legal to fit yourself?

Provided it's done safely, yes. The problem is that the materials provided, and the method of connecting it to a supply, mitigate against safety.

Don't you have to be Part P cert to fit these?

This is Part P:

And that is all of Part P - there is no more.

I'm pretty sure the guy that fitted this wasn't and did it himself.

Installation of those sockets in England or Wales used to be notifiable (manufacturers and sellers who claimed otherwise were either so ignorant that they should not have been in business or were lying). It's no longer notifiable in England.

But your friend can do nothing about any alleged illegality now.

The flex is 1.25mm, is this only suitable for low voltage stuff?

As long as the flex is rated for low voltage (which it will be) then it will be fine for low voltage use. No other voltage would ever be made available via sockets like that anyway.

Low Voltage is 50 - 1000V AC or 120 - 1500V DC, i.e. a domestic supply of 230V is low voltage

My mate wants to use it for his lawn mower and other power tools, but I didn't think it was suitable for that

It's fine for that as long as it's been properly installed, but that proviso applies to every socket in his house.

 

[owe]

thanks for clearing that up for me, I didnt realise that it was no longer notifiable in England. I just remember back in the day you couldnt do anything with telling someone about it!
I'd read a load of the old topics on here regarding fitting these sockets yourself but regs have moved on loads then by the looks of it

I'm told that the house had a whole rewire about 6 years ago, so I trust that all the internal sockets will be fine... so I guess it was just me worrying about nothings!

cheers BAS

 

[ericmark]

The Blagdon system was brought out to get around the Part P requirements. Under the Welsh Part P (was the same in England) it allows the use of pre-assembled units personally I thought it was stretching it a bit as the user fitted the plug it was clearly designed to cover kitchen units which plugged into each other where the plug was already attached, but no one seemed to challenge Blagdon who advertised their system as a way to get around the Part P rules when wiring up your pond.

Today in England the Part P notification (bit where you pay council money) has been relaxed so all it says is it must be installed following BS7671 or similar regulations. So it will be fine.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The Blagdon system was brought out to get around the Part P requirements.

No - it was not brought out to get around the requirement to make reasonable provision in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

Under the Welsh Part P (was the same in England)

It still is the same.

it allows the use of pre-assembled units

It says nothing about that, neither allowing nor prohibiting them.

personally I thought it was stretching it a bit as the user fitted the plug it was clearly designed to cover kitchen units which plugged into each other where the plug was already attached, but no one seemed to challenge Blagdon who advertised their system as a way to get around the Part P rules when wiring up your pond.

But Blagdon were either so ignorant that they should not have been in business or were lying.

Today in England the Part P notification (bit where you pay council money) has been relaxed

Part P has never said anything about notification.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If the house was rewired 6 years ago there should be documents/certificates passed over to the new owner regarding the electrical installations.
One of the concerns with fitting one of these types of sockets, is that rarely does a DIYer test the electrical integrity of it's components including the additional safety device, and in my mind failing to do this then contravenes part p, if we dare to consider this as an installation? But even if we exclude this as an installation, there are still concerns over safety. The reasons that they are generally not tested when being installed, is that the installer lacks knowledge, skill and equipment to do this. As the socket is outside and to be used for portable equipment externally, I would recommend that the RCD both on the adapted socket and on the new consumer unit are electrically tested for soundness.

 

[JohnW2]

One of the concerns with fitting one of these types of sockets, is that rarely does a DIYer test the electrical integrity of it's components including the additional safety device, and in my mind failing to do this then contravenes part p, if we dare to consider this as an installation?

Agreed - but, as you say, it's an extremely grey area. In electrical terms, it's no different (actually 'safer' because of the RCD plug) from the extension cable I often use when using outdoor portable equipment - a long length of flex with a plug on one end and a couple of socket outlets at the other end.

But even if we exclude this as an installation, there are still concerns over safety. The reasons that they are generally not tested when being installed, is that the installer lacks knowledge, skill and equipment to do this. As the socket is outside and to be used for portable equipment externally, I would recommend that the RCD both on the adapted socket and on the new consumer unit are electrically tested for soundness.

It certainly makes sense to have RCDs in CUs checked regularly. The same is technically true of plug-in RCD adaptors and RCD plugs, but I doubt that it 'ever' happens. Countless people buy plug-in RCD adaptors and RCD plugs and simply use them, and I doubt that it ever even occurs to them to send for an electrician to test them (any more than one would send for an engineer to inspect a brand new car to confirm that it is safe). AFAIAA, plug-in RCD adaptors and RCD plugs would not even be tested as part of an EICR.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

AFAIAA, plug-in RCD adaptors and RCD plugs would not even be tested as part of an EICR.

That's because they are dealt with through PAT testing.

 

[JohnW2]

AFAIAA, plug-in RCD adaptors and RCD plugs would not even be tested as part of an EICR.

That's because they are dealt with through PAT testing.

... or not, as the case might be! How many householders do you know who have electrical items within their house regularly PATested (and, in any event, I wonder to what extent PATesting tests RCD functionality?).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

PAT testing a portable RCD requires the RCD tests to be carried out on it, so it absolutely does adequately test the RCD.

Of course it is generally workplaces rather than domestic dwellings which have PAT testing done, but it is the responsibility of people purchasing such items to maintain them (and indeed in a workplace there is a legal obligation).

 

[JohnW2]

PAT testing a portable RCD requires the RCD tests to be carried out on it, so it absolutely does adequately test the RCD.

Fair enough - as I implied, I didn't know (and, looking around, it appears that many/most 'PIR tester' kit, even expensive ones, do not including RCD testing)

Of course it is generally workplaces rather than domestic dwellings which have PAT testing done ...

As I said, I think 'generally' is probably a serious understatement. I really don't think that I have ever heard of PATesting being undertaken in a domestic dwelling.

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

If the house was rewired 6 years ago there should be documents/certificates passed over to the new owner regarding the electrical installations

Should - but in reality this never happens.
Such documents either never existed in the first place, or were lost/binned shortly after they were provided.

 

[Astra99]

I note that the two posters indicating that RCD functions were to be tested during PAT testing are based in Eire. I can find no reference to carrying out RCD tests on portable RCDs, other than ensuring the RCD trips if the button is pressed, in the current Code of Practice. If anyone has further information, please can you post back.

 

[Belboz]

I note that the two posters indicating that RCD functions were to be tested during PAT testing are based in Eire.

Ermm.. think you will find that one is definitely based in Northern Ireland (UK) [Londonderry] and the other is in Co. Derry (also UK) but using the irish tricolour as his flag.

Could be wrong though...

 

[JohnW2]

I note that the two posters indicating that RCD functions were to be tested during PAT testing are based in Eire. I can find no reference to carrying out RCD tests on portable RCDs, other than ensuring the RCD trips if the button is pressed, in the current Code of Practice. If anyone has further information, please can you post back.

As I implied, although I didn't know for sure, that is what I thought. Furthermore, as I also noted many (expensive) 'comprehensive PATesting machines' do not appear to have an RCD testing facility - which suggests that, even if it were 'required', a lot of people are presumably not doing it.

Kind Regards, John