outside lamp wiring

[mrcrow]

my refuse bins are at the side of our bungalow and to avoid using the usual torch this winter, i plan to fix onto the gable wall, which is the outer wall of the garage, an led inspection lamp(s)

to get to the garage internal lighting circuits is a bit awkward since i have fitted a suspended ceiling and access is a bit constricted through the opening a 1200x600 panel void gives and is run in 1.0 t+e

i thought if i could connect the radial power circuit near the back door..handy place for the lamp on off switch, from the 13a twin socket, it would mean an easier fix for connecting power to the neon fused spur, and fit a small fuse..3 or 5amp for the led outside lamp(s)

i have done a little diagram to show what is there and ask: what size cable is permitted to extend the last radial twin socket to the fused spur; and what cable size from there to run the power from the spur up clipped to the wall vertically inside the garage exiting via the accessible zone inside the fascia board at the top of the wall, and so to outside under the eaves, then clipped to the wall, to the lamp??

thanks in advance
geof

cheers

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes fine.

If you use 1.5mm² (including the link) then you don't really need a fused switch - but you may as well or you would need a 20A switch.
1.5mm² T&E clipped to surface or buried in masonry has a rating of 20A.

If you do use a fused switch with a 3A, 5A or even a 13A fuse, then you can use 1mm² for it all.
1mm² T&E clipped to surface or buried in masonry has a rating of 16A.

 

[mrcrow]

Yes fine.

If you use 1.5mm² (including the link) then you don't really need a fused switch - but you may as well or you would need a 20A switch.
1.5mm² T&E clipped to surface or buried in masonry has a rating of 20A.

If you do use a fused switch with a 3A, 5A or even a 13A fuse, then you can use 1mm² for it all.
1mm² T&E clipped to surface or buried in masonry has a rating of 16A.

brilliant!!
i am game to use 1.0 as its what i have left from the lighting wiring i have done for all my internal led lighting
the outside wall is roughcast and painted....i have loads of clips...should i paint over the outside run with the same masonry paint to resist the rain etc...
what would be good to waterproof any entries to the lamp(s)?
perhaps i could get away with a non fused neon switch....
the garage radial is flat out with washing machine and dryer for short periods around 15A and separately when heating water on the wash side...10-12A
thanks again for your help
cheers
geof

 

[EFLImpudence]

should i paint over the outside run with the same masonry paint to resist the rain etc...

Not necessary but may look better.
Can you not run the cable inside and go through the wall into or near the light itself?
Outside wiring should really be flexible cable which has a slightly lower current rating for the same size.

what would be good to waterproof any entries to the lamp(s)?

As above - or just enter at the bottom of the fitting with a drip loop - drainage may be advisable.

perhaps i could get away with a non fused neon switch....

Yes, but you may as well use a fused switch.

the garage radial is flat out with washing machine and dryer for short periods around 15A and separately when heating water on the wash side...10-12A

An LED light or two won't make any difference.[/quote]

 

[mrcrow]

Not necessary but may look better.
Can you not run the cable inside and go through the wall into or near the light itself?
Outside wiring should really be flexible cable which has a slightly lower current rating for the same size.


As above - or just enter at the bottom of the fitting with a drip loop - drainage may be advisable.


Yes, but you may as well use a fused switch.


An LED light or two won't make any difference.

you chaps make everything come right
i think i better get the outer flexible cable then...just let me know the specs on that please and what its called in the trade...i will have to know what i am talking about in screwfix!!

the wall where the lamp(s) will go is single block but where the holes need to go is above the suspended ceiling...i could put them down a bit...good thinking...i have got a sds monster power drill and drill bits to do it...i will make it a tight fit...

so 1mm and run it around inside the garage straight from the neon switch to the holes in the wall...clipped

many thanks again...i will rethink the whole thing tomorrow and have a look through one of the suspended ceiling panels to see what i need to do to get enough access
cheers
geof

 

[EFLImpudence]

https://www.screwfix.com/p/nexans-round-flexible-cable-3183y-3-core-1-5mm-x-10m-white/9001t

Black is better for outside, but if you are going to paint it or not have much outside now, it doesn't matter.

 

[mrcrow]

https://www.screwfix.com/p/nexans-round-flexible-cable-3183y-3-core-1-5mm-x-10m-white/9001t

Black is better for outside, but if you are going to paint it or not have much outside now, it doesn't matter.

white!! our house is magnolia so that will look ok...i will get white lamp(s)

job done...thanks to you
cheers
geof

watch this space...

 

[SUNRAY]

my refuse bins are at the side of our bungalow and to avoid using the usual torch this winter, i plan to fix onto the gable wall, which is the outer wall of the garage, an led inspection lamp(s)

to get to the garage internal lighting circuits is a bit awkward since i have fitted a suspended ceiling and access is a bit constricted through the opening a 1200x600 panel void gives and is run in 1.0 t+e

i thought if i could connect the radial power circuit near the back door..handy place for the lamp on off switch, from the 13a twin socket, it would mean an easier fix for connecting power to the neon fused spur, and fit a small fuse..3 or 5amp for the led outside lamp(s)

i have done a little diagram to show what is there and ask: what size cable is permitted to extend the last radial twin socket to the fused spur; and what cable size from there to run the power from the spur up clipped to the wall vertically inside the garage exiting via the accessible zone inside the fascia board at the top of the wall, and so to outside under the eaves, then clipped to the wall, to the lamp??

thanks in advance
geof

View attachment 153168
cheers

Is the suspended ceiling made of drop in tiles on a metal grid? I have installed some significant sized structures above such ceilings. My objective will always be run the cable where it will be the least visible, which would usually be above the ceiling and straight through the wall into the back of the fitting - if possible.

 

[mrcrow]

Is the suspended ceiling made of drop in tiles on a metal grid? I have installed some significant sized structures above such ceilings. My objective will always be run the cable where it will be the least visible, which would usually be above the ceiling and straight through the wall into the back of the fitting - if possible.

yes its an armstrong grid with cheapy tiles...should have paid extra and got dearer ones...they will break easily and i have had to repair one already by using adhesive, a piece of 6mm ply to strengthen...this is my main access point so it works well now
but i will set up another access point to get the cables out of the way....an get into position with my big sds drill to put a hole through the blockwork...using a drill bit to be a tight fit for the flexible cable...
many thanks for reinforcing that idea..
cheers
geof

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you were to put one of these switches outside:

https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/pro...witches/outdoor-illuminated-push-button-timer

https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/pro...mers-switches/outdoor-illuminated-touch-timer

then you wouldn't need an FCU, you wouldn't have to remember to switch it on before going outside, you wouldn't have to remember to turn it off when you came back in, and you might find it handy when returning home after dark.

 

[mrcrow]

If you were to put one of these switches outside:

View attachment 153255

https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/pro...witches/outdoor-illuminated-push-button-timer

https://new.abb.com/low-voltage/pro...mers-switches/outdoor-illuminated-touch-timer

then you wouldn't need an FCU, you wouldn't have to remember to switch it on before going outside, you wouldn't have to remember to turn it off when you came back in, and you might find it handy when returning home after dark.

one switch calls for a capacitor for low loads and led's

or the other one says any load...is that for me??
i will have two lamps one 14W led and the other as bought will be 60W halogen which i can replace with an led bulb..
one lamp is at the back of the house just outside the back garage door and the other in the alley way down the side of the garage to the side gate..both on together.

also...is that may be something i could use at the garage entrance instead of a PIR operated light over the garage entrance door??..which i havent bought yet...and winter is here!
chere's
geof

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I suspect that the capacitor is needed for the switches which don't use a neutral - there'd be no reason for one if the switch wasn't powered by a trickle of current through the load.

I've got a couple of the 3-wire touch ones controlling some LED lights, no capacitors, no problems.


PIRs are notoriously annoying - coming on when they shouldn't, not coming on when they should, going off when they shouldn't...

If you have somewhere you can put a switch (illuminated, remember), that would always be better, IMO.

 

[mrcrow]

I suspect that the capacitor is needed for the switches which don't use a neutral - there'd be no reason for one if the switch wasn't powered by a trickle of current through the load.

I've got a couple of the 3-wire touch ones controlling some LED lights, no capacitors, no problems.


PIRs are notoriously annoying - coming on when they shouldn't, not coming on when they should, going off when they shouldn't...

If you have somewhere you can put a switch (illuminated, remember), that would always be better, IMO.

its in progress....i am making sure i dont move ahead and not plan properly as i did earlier when i put the outside light at the back..in a hurry and used a 1mm cable on a plug with a 3A fuse led out under the eaves
the plug is plugged into a socket on a dual socket which i want to free up for correct plug use..charging my power tools etc. and put in a FCU. at that time i was not aware of the best use of flexible cable...which suits me as its black...and suitable for outside use..so
i will rewire from the side of the twin socket with a piece of 1.5mm t+e as a link then rewire all the 1.0 which goes up the wall and outside with the pvc black wire...and feed the existing rear wall light and go round the side to connect to another lamp to light the side alley...
i take on board your point about the use of a pull switch to do the driveway illumination..convenient i must say to the PIR staying on or not even coming on when you need it..thanks
in my last house i used an IP65 neon switch...fed from a socket in the inside of the garage...
thanks again
geof