'Part P' '3rd Party register' does it exist?

[Ben4321]

Recently bought my council home and with our first baby on the way my missus & I are on a very (very very) tight budget so I'm doing as much of the work myself as possible. Some of the work I'm considering doing will notifiable as it's in the bathroom and I'm also considering installing underfloor heating.

My local authority (Southwark) charges £144 inc vat for the inspection rising to £240 if plans are required. Would it be cheaper/better to get a third party to inspect, where can I find sparks that do this in my area Camberwell, South London? Does a register even exist? Any sparks reading this, do you do inspections and if not, why not.

NB. I respect all trades and if I could afford the five figure quote for all the work to be done by professionals I'd be putting my feet up right now with an already completely refurbished house done to a higher standard then I could ever manage, with a cup of tea in hand, watching game of thrones....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you are on a tight budget, do not, not, NOT install electric UFH.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

+1

 

[deadshort]

If you are on a tight budget, do not, not, NOT install electric UFH.

Well, this very rarely happens, I agree with BAS it's very expensive to run, i have it installed and never use it as to heat my bathroom to a resonable temperature it had to be on for hours !

DS

 

[stillp]

And then when the room gets too hot, to cool it off the UFH needs to be off for hours.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Any sparks reading this, do you do inspections and if not, why not.

The option for registered electricians to undertake the role of being registered third party certifiers (TPC) was introduced as part of the changes to Building Regulation Part P in 2013.
It is up to the various competent person self-certification schemes to include this as something that their members might like to take up. Note this is done as an additional cost to the already stupid cost of being a member.

Very soon after this was added as an option, two of the larger schemes (NICEIC and ELECSA) decided not to offer this through their members. See article. A couple of other schemes do have it as a cost option for their members but have had very little enthusiasm from their members.
I did not take it up when I was a NAPIT scheme member because
1. I had more than enough work to do that I know about and am in control of
2. I was already paying NAPIT enough of my profit
3. (With respect) many DIY jobs I have inspected in the past fall a long way short of the requirements of BS7671
4. It means working with the local authority who tend to suck any profit out of a job

I see that NAPIT do have a few members who do have a TPC scheme tick, so you could try on their website and find a spark that is in your area and has a TPC option.
https://www.napit.org.uk/schemes/third-party-certification.aspx

 

[deadshort]

And then when the room gets too hot, to cool it off the UFH needs to be off for hours.

No, just about 20mins.

DS

 

[ericmark]

Third party only permitted in England, it does not extend to Wales, I know a few firms took up the option, but in real terms it is not for DIY as such, but allows allied trades within the company to do small electrical jobs, and then the electrician can sign them off.

Even using the LABC route it's not plain sailing. My local authority wanted to use a third party electrician to survey the work, a report would then be sent to them and based on that report you would get the completion certificate. So not only the £100 plus vat to LABC but also you pay some electrician as well. I wanted to do my own inspection and testing, in the end they agreed, but it took some persuading to get them to agree, they wanted to see my test gear, but did not require me to produce my degree in Electrical and Electronic engineering or C&G2391 but it was pain that unless you had electrical qualifications then you would need to pay the local electrician as well as LABC.

So in real terms you have two options for any work requiring notification. One get a scheme member to do the work, two break the law.

You need to still inspect and test even if some one else comes and checks over your work. Because I have the test meters for me it is not a problem, but in real terms it is near impossible for any real DIY guy rather than an electrician who is just not a scheme member to do work to his house and comply with the rules.

There is a big difference to making it work, and making it comply with all the rules. I am sure most DIY people just trust to the Lord and don't do any testing and inspection.

As to UFH the one I fitted is now never used, it was to be frank a total failure. Since Roman times

we have tried to install under floor heating, but the temperature which you can walk on the floor is too low to put enough heat into the rooms to keep them warm and have enough ventilation without using some heat recovery system. Or having a very large house with very few people living in it.

UFH is in the main an addition to some other heating and is used to use up some energy which would otherwise be lost, with a solid fuel fire for example when running it produces too much heat so the excess is used to heat the floor so once the fire is out then heat is still coming into the room. The same with solar panels power is produced and you want to use the power rather than send it into national grid. It is a good heat store. But useless as the sole form of heating.

 

[stillp]

And then when the room gets too hot, to cool it off the UFH needs to be off for hours.

No, just about 20mins.

DS

That's not my experience.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

See article.

... blah blah ... job protection ... blah blah ... vested interests ... blah blah ... sulk sulk ... blah blah ...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

in real terms it is not for DIY as such, but allows allied trades within the company to do small electrical jobs, and

Surely if the other tradesman and the electrician all work for the same company, the company is the legal entity which has done the work, and the electrician certifies it on behalf of the company.

 

[ericmark]

I don't know about where you live, but here on the borders of Wales it seems the kitchen fitting, and central heating fitting firms seem to be the only firms which have gone for third party inspection and testing with the scheme operators. It did get like the old days when Unions were strong, and gas fitters would not touch electric supplies and an electrician would follow and wire up.

Same with the kitchen fitters, electrician would do a first and second fix the kitchen fitters would not touch the electrics, and to be honest first fix does not really need an electrician nothing is powered up.

Why else would firms get the extra option unless they need it to get around the scheme providers rules? It is up to the scheme provider to say what the electrician can or can't do. If for example the scheme provider states in their rules BS7671 must be followed then the electrician can't fit German sockets. But there is no legal reason to stop fitting of German sockets other than the contract signed to be a scheme member.

The problem is an electrician who is able to sign off other peoples work has to follow what the scheme provider says, he is not able to use his experience to decide if the installation is safe, or simply use common sense, he has a very strict set of rules. However the LABC inspector has the ability to permit things like German sockets in fact until Thursday he could not refuse to issue a completion certificate if an installation followed any EU set of rules.

So in real terms it is far more likely to pass with the LABC inspector than with an independent inspector.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't know about where you live, but here on the borders of Wales it seems the kitchen fitting, and central heating fitting firms seem to be the only firms which have gone for third party inspection and testing with the scheme operators.

That would be to generate extra income, from inspecting other people's work. If a firm like that has an electrician they don't need to do anything WRT their own work apart from sign it off and notify after the event.

Why else would firms get the extra option unless they need it to get around the scheme providers rules?

Surely the point was to provide another route for people who can't self-certify, as an alternative to LABC inspection? Don't know what you mean about firms getting an extra option to get around scheme providers' rules...

If for example the scheme provider states in their rules BS7671 must be followed then the electrician can't fit German sockets.

Is that actually a contravention of BS 7671?


But there is no legal reason to stop fitting of German sockets other than the contract signed to be a scheme member.

However the LABC inspector has the ability to permit things like German sockets in fact until Thursday he could not refuse to issue a completion certificate if an installation followed any EU set of rules.

Thursday's referendum is about the EU, not the EEA.

 

[Risteard]

to be honest first fix does not really need an electrician nothing is powered up.

I really can't agree. There is absolutely no guarantee that the wiring will have been correctly installed. (In fact there is pretty much a guarantee that it won't have been.)

Watching DIY SOS last night I saw that some jokers removed a socket outlet and spur from a partition which was being moved or altered somehow and then reinstated it. This meant that cables were no longer run in prescribed zones and yet this was broadcast on the BBC! These other trades really haven't the slightest clue what they are doing when it comes to electrical installation.

Although the electricians also ran a main protective bonding conductor in a notch alongside pipework presumably without any protection so that wasn't great either.

 

[scousespark]

The problem is an electrician who is able to sign off other peoples work has to follow what the scheme provider says, he is not able to use his experience to decide if the installation is safe, or simply use common sense, he has a very strict set of rules. However the LABC inspector has the ability to permit things like German sockets in fact until Thursday he could not refuse to issue a completion certificate if an installation followed any EU set of rules.

So in real terms it is far more likely to pass with the LABC inspector than with an independent inspector.

Read more: //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/part-p-3rd-party-register-does-it-exist.461525/#ixzz4CFAoEo51

I would say that applying experience is exactly what the electrician does when he inspects. The electrician and LABC inspector have different focus and if you can prove an installation is safe, the LABC inspector will sign off the installation.